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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The Nicene Creed with Biblical References

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 Re:

We have so little information about Mary after the resurrection. In fact, I know of no information about her in the book of Acts except Acts_1:14 and after that, silence. Some things we have about her during Jesus' days is when she told Jesus to do something, but He would not do it. Even Mary had to learn the ways of the Lord. Mary had to be born-again and grow spiritually and learn to walk in love and forgiveness like the rest of us.

John_2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

We have only this:
Acts_1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Notice, the Scriptures refer to her as "the mother of Jesus", and not the "Mother of God". The Bible never encourages us to speak of her as the "Mother of God", which has led the RCC to anoint her all kinds of things, not the least of which is the Queen of Heaven. That is a false, counterfeit Mary. Not the Mary we know from the Scriptures.

Also, notice that men tried to focus the spotlight on Mary as His mother, but Jesus did not join in with paying respects to His mother, but rather talked about His Father. It could almost be seen as an insult when Jesus spoke what He spoke in Matt 12:49, except it wasn't an insult for those who had eyes to see what the Lord's point was.

Matt 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Matt 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Our treatment and estimation of one another (male and female) should be according to Jesus' example.

The RCC is very good at syllogisms.

Here is an example:

Christ lives in me. (Gal 2:20)
I died in Christ.
I do not live at all. (encourages self-effacement)

This little "teaching" encourages self-effacement for His life to be manifested but God does not require that. The right concept is that we "live by the faith of the Son of God." We live by His present, active life.

RCC version.
Jesus is the Word of God.
Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Mary is the mother of God.

 2015/8/25 23:40
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 Re:

It is interesting the epistles do not really use the phrase "born-again" and neither do early church fathers or anyone in church history till the evangelical movement in america essentially.

We treat the idea of praying to have jesus in our heart as if the apostles did this where ever they went. Actually the early church put a great emphasis on baptism (water and spirit) and not on a short prayer people would say.

the rite of baptism was considered the declaration that you were following the Lord as a disciple.

towards Mary, as I alluded to she was called mother of God in a Church council (300-400 AD) and this was their deep thinking on Jesus was God in the flesh, even in the womb of mary.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2015/8/26 0:00Profile









 Re:

Greg, what you just posted I actually read earlier today on a Catholic site. I will check my history and post it. I don't know what your point is but it sure makes for interesting reading.

 2015/8/26 0:56
brothagary
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 Re:

The gospel uses the term bornagain so that will do fine ..


The King James' Version uses the phrase born again three times. Two appear in chapter 3 of the Gospel of John. Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus, a Pharisee described as "a ruler of the Jews", who says that, because of his miracles, Jesus is known "to be a teacher come from God". Jesus immediately replies: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."[Jn 3:3] [13] A few verses later the Gospel quotes Jesus as saying:

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. / The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[Jn 3:7

 2015/8/26 15:56Profile
brothagary
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 Re:

Yea I don't like the idea of asking Jesus in to our heart so to speak ,but t I can't discount all the testimony that says that was how many get saved ,so long as the gospel is proclaimed God seems to do it in a number of different ways

 2015/8/26 15:59Profile
Heydave
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 Re:

The epistle of 1 Peter actually says in ch.1 v.23 " you have been born again....." and also in ch 1 v.3 it says" God has begotten us again to a living hope.." , which is essentially the same thing.

So together with Jesus using the term, it is a very biblical phrase and spiritual truth. What exactly are you trying to imply Greg?


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Dave

 2015/8/26 16:19Profile









 Re:

Born-again is a good term but Catholic theology doesn't teach this, because it means one must make a choice, not so with babies who are baptized who are incapable of making a choice. RCC theology supports baptismal salvation. Babies are unable to receive or not receive.

John 1:12 BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 2015/8/26 16:19
TMK
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 Re:

I would never say that baptism is necessary for salvation, but it true that in the early church baptism and salvation were so intertwined as to be indistinguishable. I would venture to say that a person in the early church days was not considered part of "The Way" unless they had been baptized. So while on a very technical level perhaps baptism was not a prerequisite to be "born again" as a practical matter, in those days at least, everyone was- probably very close in time to their conversion. In fact I would go so far as to say that baptism WAS their conversion experience.

It is a shame this is no longer the case. Most churches, including mine, have scheduled baptisms once in a while, perhaps once a month or once a quarter. This makes it seem to people that it is an optional thing. It is not optional, and a person who refuses to be baptized for whatever reason is on extremely tenuous ground from a salvation standpoint.


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Todd

 2015/8/26 17:18Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

I would never say that baptism is necessary for salvation, but it true that in the early church baptism and salvation were so intertwined as to be indistinguishable. I would venture to say that a person in the early church days was not considered part of "The Way" unless they had been baptized. So while on a very technical level perhaps baptism was not a prerequisite to be "born again" as a practical matter, in those days at least, everyone was- probably very close in time to their conversion. In fact I would go so far as to say that baptism WAS their conversion experience.

It is a shame this is no longer the case. Most churches, including mine, have scheduled baptisms once in a while, perhaps once a month or once a quarter. This makes it seem to people that it is an optional thing. It is not optional, and a person who refuses to be baptized for whatever reason is on extremely tenuous ground from a salvation standpoint.


Well said brother, very true. Baptism was a committal to following Christ in the way and not just a fun experience like it is for many north americans. In some countries when you are baptized it is a death sentence, ie you could be martyred afterwards.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2015/8/26 20:37Profile









 Re:

My point is that baptism is not for newborns, not even in the NT. Newborns cannot commit to die for Jesus Christ. They cannot commit, period.

 2015/8/26 22:02





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