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brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

Actually if you look at the scripture you will see in at lest two place that suggests that false teachers were marked out for hell in an election check it out so are all the fallen angles and the devil and an argument can be made clearly that judas was also bound to perdition .

There is much scripture to cause devote Christians to acknowledge that .

The soverrnty of God is overwhelming tho I breath tho think tho a pray and walk the bible says he upholds all things by the word of his power ,

With out gods control over my nervasystem I'm dead a bowl of jelly .

The power of gods soverrnty and control is worth medating on weather it's in salvation, or humanity or unaversaly, I have joy because of all those things ,.

We line up with agnostics and atheists when we fail to recognise the full scope of gods power and glory in creation .

 2015/8/20 5:38Profile
dfella
Member



Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan

 Re:

Let God be true and every man a liar. Once saved always saved is a doctrine of demons and is leading many of souls to hell. Gods word is clear and not ambiguous to them who have ears to hear.

1Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some SHALL DEPART from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
(you cannot depart from something you did not first ARRIVE at)

2Peter 2:20-22 For if AFTER they have ESCAPED the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are AGAIN ENTANGLED therein, and OVERCOME, the latter END is worse with them than the BEGINNING. (21) For it had been better for them not to have KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, than, after they have known it, to TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT delivered unto them. (22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is TURNED to his own vomit AGAIN; and the sow that WAS WASHED to her wallowing in the mire.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully AFTER that we have RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and have TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and were MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, (5) And have TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and the POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME (6) IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 2:1-3 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should LET THEM SLIP. (2) For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; (3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

2Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, BEWARE LEST YE ALSO, being led away with the error of the wicked, FALL from your own stedfastness.

Romans 11:20-22 Well; because of unbelief they WERE BROKEN OFF, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: (21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. (22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE in his goodness: OTHERWISE THOU SHALT BE CUT OFF.

Hebrews 3:12-14 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, IN DEPARTING from the living God. (13) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you BE HARDENED through the deceitfulness of sin. (14) For we are made partakers of Christ, IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

2Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, GIVE DILIGENCE to make your calling and election sure: for IF YE DO these things, ye shall never fall:

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD, THEN are ye my disciples indeed;

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope FIRM UNTO THE END.

Colossians 1:23 If ye CONTINUE in the faith grounded and settled, and BE NOT MOVED AWAY from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1Timothy 4:16 TAKE HEED unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; CONTINUE in them: for in DOING this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall ENDURE unto the end, the same shall be saved.

1Peter 5:8 Be SOBER, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Mark 13:35-37 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: (36) Lest coming suddenly he find you SLEEPING. (37) And what I say unto you I say unto all, WATCH.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous TURNETH AWAY from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them SHALL HE DIE.




_________________
David Fella

 2015/8/20 9:04Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3238
Texas

 Re:

Just as important, are we doing our part by being disciples of Christ?

“it is impossible to know the value of salvation without desiring to see others brought in.” -Whitfield


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2015/8/20 9:44Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

David Fella,

Thank you for all the scripture references. There really is so much clear cut teaching in the 'word' about the warning of turning back. Many more we could add to those you posted. I also think that OSAS is one of the big errors of modern times, causing a weakened gospel to those who are not walking in the light.

There are many so called 'proof texts' quoted by the proponents of OSAS (I know because I was brought up on them). However when looked at in context, they do not say what folk try to make them say. They (the OSAS proponents) go to great lengths to try to explain away all the clear statements and warnings of scripture about turning back from faith in Christ.

The other great error of OSAS is that they cry 'legalism' to any who would suggest eternal life is conditional to continuing in faith and obedience to Christ. This is a false premise. It is not legalistic to continue to exercise faith and repentance to Christ anymore than it is necessary to do this to receive salvation at the beginning. Why is it 'works' (as some suggest) to continue in faith, but not 'works' to enter in by faith?

Just this Sunday we had a sermon on Hebrews 12. However because the one preaching holds to a OSAS doctrine, there was a massive contradiction. It was said that Hebrews 12:25, "See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven", was not speaking to Christians but Jews who had not come to faith. However most of the rest of the chapter, which is addressed to the same 'you' people was applied to Christians, such as Hebrews 12:22-23

"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect"

When I pointed this out, I was told that, "Well 12:25 can't be talking to Christians because we know you can't loose your salvation"! This is called inserting a presupposition into the text!!

Now I don't believe you can 'loose your salvation' like you loose your keys, but you can sell the keys of your car!

lets be clear in definitions. We ARE eternally secure in the Son, IF we remain in the Son, but this is not Once Saved Always saved, not matter what!

"And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son."

"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

1 John 5:12 & 13 ...One of my favourite scriptures, because salvation is of Christ and not me. I just have to keep hold on Him and He will keep hold on me. No matter how weak any of us are we can remain in Him and He will keep us. but let us not tempt Christ to think we can reject Him, turn to the filth of the world and then come into His wedding feast.




_________________
Dave

 2015/8/20 10:48Profile
JHerndon
Member



Joined: 2010/8/1
Posts: 92
Bonifay,Fl

 Re:

I have been thinking on this whole conversation for a while. I have grown up in a Pentecostal church where OSAS teaching is no where to be found. However after some studying I'm not so sure where I stand. I in no way think that one can pray a prayer and then just live however they want and expect to hear well done at the end. But if one truly comes to repentance and if one truly sees the beauty of Jesus Christ in the gospel and God saves that man does God just unsave him as soon as he makes a mistake? No where in scripture to my knowledge will you ever find God starting something then undoing it or not completing what he started. The scripture even says He who starts a good work is faithful to complete it. I know this is a big debate and I don't have the answer because I don't even no where I stand myself but I would just take it easy on talk that says OSAS doctrine is demonic and things like that. God can save whoever and however He pleases. God's word is inerrant our interpretation of His word is not. So regardless of where you stand Calvinist or Arminian or some combination of both (like me) let's remember that we are all in this thing for the glory of Christ! We are all on the same team


_________________
Joshua Herndon

 2015/8/20 16:17Profile









 Re:

by Heydave on 2015/8/20 10:48:07


The other great error of OSAS is that they cry 'legalism' to any who would suggest eternal life is conditional to continuing in faith and obedience to Christ. This is a false premise. It is not legalistic to continue to exercise faith and repentance to Christ anymore than it is necessary to do this to receive salvation at the beginning. Why is it 'works' (as some suggest) to continue in faith, but not 'works' to enter in by faith?




Amen, HeyDave.

Obedience is not legalism. Strange that that seems to be the message from many areas, today.

We are justified by "faith" and we are "sanctified" by faith, both require obedience and volitionally turning towards the Lord, continually. We are to serve the Living God having our conscious purged from dead works (Heb 9:14), implying that we will be engaged in His works.

He is after all, the Savior of all who OBEY HIM.

Heb_5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them THAT OBEY HIM;

 2015/8/20 16:19
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1044


 Re:

I will try to speak ,..and desiring The Lord' help here.

* can / will the deception of Satan bring one into hell?

Could it be that he,himself is deceived ?
That he wants,...and thinks it possible to achieve hieghts above God ?
To win this battle ?

* Satan NEVER wants his deception brought to Light.
Light exspells his darkness.
And,we know he never ....ever,wants Light manifested ( made real )
and expose his mighty works ! ...To where eyes can be opened,and a turning to Truth can take place....Right ?

So o o o,...down through the ages he distorts true meanings of words,..
Gets men following after man,.and man- made ideas,...whole multitudes,....when Jesus said 'Follow Me',..and He (One with His Father,God) ,...followed God.....Led by The Spirit of God.

Is not deception" one of his greatest tools,....if not his greatest tool ?

* Why ? What benefit is it to him ?

JHerndon,
What I see mostly now about "churches",....( not church as The Word teaches church,but how men have,through the years,teaches) ( The word 'church'is just one of the words that has been distorted)has changed and changed,down through the ages,Until we have what we have
now......different ! Do you see it anywhere near the oridginal entent of
God?

Important thought is,When we see a "church"that separates out a specific Scripture and makes a whole denomination by it,no matter if many other Scritures conflict with that belief,..then,..take thought,...Because when we have / know the REAL,then ALL the Scriptures come together...into ONE. The Word is One.

Also there are one's that believe they can have Jesus,and not have "The Word" ,...What He spoke. But to do so,we would have "ANOTHER JESUS"
Not the One of whom Paul and the other' s of The Bible taught.

You mentioned the Pentecostal ch,...Are you are familiar with Smith Wigglsworth ? Where is there someone who preaches and also teaches
today,as he also taught the Living out of that new Life that God has given us.

Should I say more ?
I know this is serious,....but God is serious.

elizabeth









 2015/8/20 19:22Profile









 Re:

If you think you can lose it you don't know what happens when you are born again. What happens cannot be undone. What many are saying here is the old salvations a free gift of grace maintained by works lie.

Now if a person walks to the front of a church and prays a simple prayer and goes away continuing to sin he did not get born again.

It is impossible for a person who is truely born again to live in sin or remain in an unconvicted sin. Because sin is against the nature of a person who is born again and it is impossible to live against your nature for any length of time. Spurious, non conversions are innumerable in the church due to the bow your head and pray this pray believers.

Marc mc

 2015/8/20 19:52









 Re:

No, that is the fallacy. You cannot lose Christ. You can only reject Him so be careful regarding the deceitfulness of sin and letting your heart become hardened, because this can happen.

 2015/8/20 19:58
dfella
Member



Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan

 Re:

Brother,

Please read this verse carefully.

Hebrews 3:12-14 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, IN DEPARTING from the living God. (13) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you BE HARDENED through the deceitfulness of sin. (14) For we are made partakers of Christ, IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Paul is admonishing the BRETHREN not to DEPART from the living God. He then encourages us to EXHORT/WARN/ ENCOURAGE one another daily unless we be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Next verse says that we are made partakers of Christ. The bible says no man can come unto Jesus Christ except the Father draws him FIRST. He then warns again that WE must HOLD the beginning of our confidence stedfast to the end.

Now I agree that it is God that worketh in us both to will and do of His good pleasure Philippians 2:13 as long as we are WILLING.

Please ponder and meditate on the verses I posted earlier. They are not my words but Gods and they are not my own interpretation. The danger of OSAS is most of the people I know personally who stand on this teaching are living luke warm lives at best.

I was also pondering some other verses on this topic.

Galatians 6:1-7 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. (2) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. (3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. (5) For every man shall bear his own burden. (6) Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. (7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Think about this for a moment Paul again is addressing the brethren and is admonishing us concerning a brother who might fall into sin. This brother would require restoration. And because we are the body of Christ we should have a burden/care/concern for the fallen brother and fulfill the second commandment to love our neighbor as ourselves and to take heed not to think to highly of ourselves lest we also might be overtaken in sin.

Now look at verse 4. BUT let every man prove his own work. The work of salvation, we are to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling. Why? Because every man will bear his own burden. Christ is there all the time, He will NEVER EVER leave us, but do not be deceived in thinking men will not leave Christ.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, (25) In meekness instructing those that OPPOSE THEMSELVES; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (26) And that they may RECOVER THEMSELVES out of the snare of the devil, who are TAKEN CAPTIVE by him at(to do)his will.

We have to remember the audience that Paul is addressing are believers. To recover themselves in the original language means, (to become sober AGAIN, regain one's senses). They were once sober minded but because they have fallen into sin they need to recover themselves through brokenness, contriteness, and Godly sorrow so that Christ would once again grant repentance.

One final thought is found in the book of James.
James 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; (20) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Pay close attention to context. James is speaking to Christians, not the world. He says, "Brothers, if any of YOU err from the truth" Err means to (roam from safety/truth/virtue, go astray). Verse 20 is clear what God calls one who goes astray and chooses to remain in his sin, he is called a sinner and he needs to be restored and needs to repent.

The Christian is admonished, He who covers his sin will not prosper, but whoso confesses and forsakes his sin will obtain mercy.

Sorry for this last portion but God wants it said. Look at Gods admonishment to Israel.

Jeremiah 3:12-14 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. (13) Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD. (14) Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Israel is still running from God, she has yet to turn BACK. We as followers of Christ can also choose to run but Gods invitation remains the same for us as it does for Israel.

It's one thing to commit an act of sin and it's another thing to remain in a sin unwilling to confess it and forsake it.

I truly trust that God would bless this word to your heart.







_________________
David Fella

 2015/8/20 22:20Profile





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