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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is the SHEMITAH like Y2K happening again?

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 Re:

David the teaching on the Shemitah does not have a single thing to do with the "end of the world".

Cahn does not say that, imply that or endorse that.

The Shemitah is a biblical fact that has to do with a 7 year rest cycle that God put in place as a law.

This is no like the Miyans or Y2K or any other nonsense of that sort. It had primarily to do with finance and the humbling of the Jews through debt forgiveness. When the Jews disobeyed this principle some very bad things happened in the form of captivity with the resulting financial ruin.

I repeat it has not a single thing to do with the end of the world. Unless your God is Mammon.

Marc mc

 2015/8/7 19:45
dfella
Member



Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan

 Re:

Marc, I do not know anything about the Shemitah. I was more focused on Doug's statement about Y2K and the end of the world that is being plastered all over the internet.

I do not know much about Jonathan Cahn either but it appears Doug was saying he is predicting the end of the world next month? In addition to that prediction, there has been a lot about a meteor coming next month and the Jade Helm stuff also.

Like the Y2K scare, the same fear mongering is surrounding these events. I appreciate what you shared about the two classes of people, one will be overtaken and the other ready and waiting. Both classes of which are in the church. Confessors and professors.

I am all for sounding and blowing the trumpet and warning people to repent, I just do not bare witness with the spirit of fear that surrounds these events like the internet is promoting. I have spoken with some Christians who are genuinely in fear about these events.

If we are ready as you mentioned, there should be no fear. When fear is present it is a definite indicator hearts might not be right.

Thanks for the clarification on the Shemitah Marc.


_________________
David Fella

 2015/8/7 22:02Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

".......This imposed Shemitah judgment was very specific and involved only the nation of Israel . Since no Gentile nations were ever obligated to keep the Shemitah, there is no scriptural basis for suggesting that any other nation would ever experience an imposed Shemitah judgment. Yet, this is precisely what Jonathan Cahn suggests that America has experienced........."
read more :
http://www.thebereancall.org/content/october-2014-extra-shemitah



 2015/8/8 0:20Profile









 Re:

".......This imposed Shemitah judgment was very specific and involved only the nation of Israel . Since no Gentile nations were ever obligated to keep the Shemitah, there is no scriptural basis for suggesting that any other nation would ever experience an imposed Shemitah judgment. Yet, this is precisely what Jonathan Cahn suggests that America has experienced........."

The Ten Commandments were only given to the Jews. Does that mean they only apply to them?

You may or may not know but your quote is the doorstep of the reason the Church is in such a mess.

Marc mc

 2015/8/8 7:20
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Oy vey.

I don't believe the nations are the object (I.e., the target) of any OT law EXCEPT that God has indeed made a way for us to worship Him and to know Him. Psalm 67:1, 2 and basically Romans 9-11 and Hebrews are just some of the waypoints toward this end.

So, indirectly, we are witnesses to God's ways to Israel in the Law. Not debating the applicability of the commandments to Gentiles here. I am merely saying that we are walking in the showers of God's goodness. And now, we who believe on Jesus have this whole counsel of God written into our hearts by Him. All of the truth of who He is as expressed in all the Law is personally fulfilled in Jesus who completed the requirements of the Law for Israel and --yes -- for us. Jesus, then, fulfills not only our 10 commandments but our Shemitah. The spirit of Shemitah to walk in rest and restoration, in forgiveness and love, in righteousness and peace with each other .... this is ours through Jesus. Shemitah is not a law to us but Christ who fulfills it IS a law to us.

Again I am not weighing in anymore on Cahn. I don't care about Cahn's views on Shemitah. He thinks he has tapped into knowledge about the ways of God and I am unable to say that the events he believes will occur won't occur. Even yesterday news reports said we are on the verge of a stock market collapse the likes of which we have not see. (David Stockman, Reagan's budget chief.) He is by no means alone. He is not viewed as a nut or fringe or sky is falling person.

Geopolitically, spiritually, this all makes some sense. Whether Shemitah matters prominently here is not mine to say. But Jesus matters. Let us seek Him and support and love each other and warn others while it is day.


_________________
Tim

 2015/8/8 8:34Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///The Ten Commandments were only given to the Jews. Does that mean they only apply to them?///

I am in agreement with the artical :

"The New Testament never indicates any Sabbath-keeping at either the day or year level for believers after Christ’s death on the cross, but the writer of Hebrews does give additional insight into the matter of the Sabbath for believers in Christ. In order to prepare ethnically Jewish Christians for the soon-coming destruction of the temple, in chapter 4, the author states that those who have believed the gospel have already entered into God’s Sabbath rest by faith—which would include both the Sabbath day and the Sabbath year (Heb:4:1-3 [1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
, 8-10). Therefore, because Christ fulfilled the Law, God does not impose a Sabbath day or a Sabbath year (the Shemitah) upon believers."
read more :
http://www.thebereancall.org/content/october-2014-extra-shemitah


RE: /// You may or may not know but your quote is the doorstep of the reason the Church is in such a mess. ///

Please explain what you mean in more detail ?



This seems to be the foundation of Cahn’s theory :

"Israel and America are the only two nations that God sovereignly planted as a light to the nations. “Those who laid America’s foundations saw it as a new Israel, an Israel of the New World. And as with ancient Israel, they saw it as a covenant with God,” the Prophet says. To whom much is given, much is required."

http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/jonathan_Cahn_010312.aspx




 2015/8/8 10:11Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Is America the New Israel?

"Cahn often repeats what I call our national myth—that America is somehow the new Israel. This myth goes back to beginning of our history but cannot be sustained by any biblical standard. The myth is based on the belief that man can unilaterally make a covenant and bind God to it, without God having agreed to anything. Cahn claims, “Embedded in America’s foundation is a prophetic warning. The warning was given on America’s first day as a nation. It concerns what will happen if America should ever turn away from God” (Cahn: 21). For such a warning to be valid and binding, it would have to be issued by an infallible prophet who speaks for God, in this case, beyond scripture. Who, exactly, is America’s Moses, or Jesus, or the apostles? Lacking any such person, God cannot have stated that America is Israel and has a binding covenant. That she does is our national myth.

The truth is that God draws out the boundaries of all nations through His providence. The truths revealed in Romans 13 and elsewhere about how Christians relate to civil governments applied to Rome when Paul wrote and all civil governments in history. Only Israel was directly established by God and had a binding covenant mediated through Moses who God chose and appointed. America has neither a Moses nor a binding covenant. We are not the new Israel and never have been. The moral laws of God that do apply are found in the Bible and they apply to all people in all nations.

Cahn falsely claims that any nation can become a covenant nation: “Such a prophetic sign could be given to any nation as long as that nation in some way matched the description or shared the attributes of ancient Israel in 586 BC” (Cahn: 56). Cahn obviously fails to understand what Moses taught in Deuteronomy 32:8, 9 (cited at the beginning of this article). Only Israel was directly under Yahweh, all the other nations are under the “sons of God.” No other nations had an Exodus, a Sinai, or a Moses. All nations are ruled by God’s providence and are under the principalities and powers (‘sons of God’ of Deuteronomy 32:8). America is no exception. Cahn again repeats our national myth: “Those who founded America not only foretold its future blessing—but also gave warning. It was this: If America ever turned away from God, then the same judgments that fell upon ancient Israel would fall upon America” (Cahn: 61). Israel had Moses and the prophets who spoke inerrantly for God. Who speaks bindingly for God beyond Scripture for America? There is no such person.

I reject Cahn’s claim that America is somehow Israel. All the moral laws of God always apply to all peoples in all nations. They are revealed in Scripture. All geo-political entities have boundaries that are drawn out by God in His providence and have leaders that His providence allows. In these important ways America is like all nations. We are not Israel. Furthermore, no man or nation has the power or authority to bind God to a man-made, unilateral covenant. Unilateral covenants in the Bible are established by God, not man. We need to reject the myth that America is a special covenant nation and start thinking Biblically rather than mythologically"

read more at :
http://bereanresearch.org/when-a-false-teacher-calls-america-israel/

 2015/8/8 10:39Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
TMK wrote to DFella:
Just to clarify, the traditional doctrine of the "imminent return of Christ" holds that nothing further needs to happen; that Jesus could return at any moment and all required prophecies have been fulfilled.

The only reason I mention this is because you said you said you knew that Christ's imminent return is at hand but you also feel that further prophecy must be fulfilled first.


I decided today to look up this video / Jonathan Cahn and it seems that Rabbi Cahn does believe in the "imminent return of Christ." One guy who did an interview with Jonathan Cahn named Dr. Kevin Clarkson with Prophecy in the News said, "I don't even eat Post-Toasties," I'm so Pre-Trib!"

So could pre-trib view, 'the imminent return of Christ' be behind the shemitah? (edit) a better question, does anyone know what he position is or does he have one? (unedit) I don't know, just asking.


_________________
Lisa

 2015/8/8 12:09Profile









 Re: Is America the New Israel?

The confusion for many is what aspects of God that He relates to man through either Trancendence or Imminence.

The Law is Trancendent, it is the Kingdom of God, it's the principles of God. The Law did not begin with the nation of Isreal. God simply revealed the principles to them while the rest of the nations remained in darkness. He brought a temporal earthly people into contact with His Trancedent principles.

If the Jews walked in the Light they where blessed because the Laws concerning the Light were already there and have a consistent eternal outcome. That is why Jesus said the Law will never pass away. What the Jews lacked of course was ability to obey the Laws because of the fall. Therefore the Law was to bring man to defeat and repentance to the only One who could fulfill it, Jesus.

America is not ordained by God above other nations nor is it the replacement of Isreal. America however was founded upon the knowledge of the Law ( the Light). It's Judeao-Christian foundation set it on a course of agreement with the Trancedent principles of God and it experience the blessings that result automatically.

What has happened over the past hundred years or so is a consistent systematic departure from the Light and the resulting calamities that plague the Jews are being experienced. The other nations are simply living in the calamity and have been for hundreds of years so things like the Shemitah go by unnoticed. But from its position of blessing because of its foundation of the fathers of the Nation and the Puritans Americas decline from Abortion, Same sex marriages, financial servitude etc etc will be more than visible and obvious. This part Cahn is wrong in his book as he sees far too much in the form of a covenant between America and God, this is simply not true. If Tim buck twenty started to walk in the Light as a nation and passed and followed the moral principles of God they would begin an ascent to real social prosperity in ever area almost imediatley.

These Laws however are Trancedent, they do not require the Hand of God at all. They should not be confused with the personal, imminent contact that the Father has with His children as He fellowships, teaches, leads and loves in personal relationship.

This is far too much to relate in a single post, I can clarify points further if asked.

Marc mc

 2015/8/8 12:35
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

To the extent Cahn bases anything on a view that God has planted America as a light to the world in any way similarly to Israel he is extra-biblical, heterodox and wrong. We have been over this. George Washington was not a practicing Christian. There is a paucity of evidence that he actually had the vision that is attributed to him and if he did it was not from God as it speaks in contradiction to the Bible. The vision's messenger said that "the Union" , the American republic, will last until the earth ends. It had people kneeling down before the flag. No sir. Not by a thousand miles can this be true.

God will not have His church live for the U.S. Republic. Never. It is another gospel than the one delivered by the apostles.

Also, from Snopes....

"The tale of "Washington's Vision" was penned by Charles Wesley Alexander (1836-1927), a Philadelphia journalist who published The Soldier's Casket, a periodical for Union veterans of the Civil War. Writing under the pseudonym "Wesley Bradshaw," Alexander authored several fictional "vision" or "dream" pieces featuring historic American figures which were published as broadsheets and in various newspapers during the Civil War and were later offered for sale through advertisements in the pages of The Soldier's Casket, with the artificial separation between the real Charles Alexander and the pseudonymous "Wesley Bradshaw" allowing the former to unashamedly laud the latter's works.

The meaning of "Washington's Vision" was apparent to Alexander's contemporary audience. First published in April 1861 (at the outbreak of the Civil War) and full of references to "Union" and "Republic," this account of Washington's praying "to God in secret for aid and comfort" during the darkest days of the American Revolution and being visited by an angel who revealed to him a vision of the United States victorious was an obvious allegory for Unionists whose America was facing its greatest crisis since the revolution: a civil war pitting one half the country against the other in a struggle that threatened the existence of the Republic.

During the war Alexander penned several similar tracts featuring both historical and contemporary American figures (e.g., Abraham Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, Ulysses S. Grant), including "General McClellan's Dream," a narrative in which the general-in-chief of the Union Army fell asleep at his desk and was awakened by a vision of George Washington, who admonished the general for sleeping at his post and revealed to him secret rebel plans which he urged McClellan to act on quickly in order to prevent Washington, D.C. from falling into Confederate hands. Alexander also published even more fantastical tales, including several about female Union soldiers with supernatural powers and one of a demonic Englishwoman who fought on the side of the Confederacy."


_________________
Tim

 2015/8/8 13:07Profile





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