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yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Is approval of homosexual behavior the great falling away?

Many churches and pastors have affirmed homosexual behavior. This is not new among "liberal churches", but these positions are increasingly adopted by self-professing "Christians" in the evangelical community.

Is this the great falling away, as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2? If not, what could that possibly allude to?

"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (2 Thess 2:1-4, NKJV)

 2015/7/24 9:42Profile
followthelamb
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 Re: Is approval of homosexual behavior the great falling away?

Brother, I believe the greatest falling away is still to come and that these early christian writings describe in detail what we can expect:

• "Now concerning...our being gathered together to Him...that day will not come, unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed.." (2 Thessalonians 2:1,3) [edited for choice of Bible translation]

• "Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary..the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.." (Hippolytus)

• “..that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God.” (Tertullian)

• “God will allow persecution from the Antichrist not because He cannot stop it, but because He desires, as usual, His strugglers to be crowned....the reverent ones among the living will be taken up into the clouds, receiving, as a reward of honor, that which is higher than any man.” (Cyril of Jerusalem)

• “the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church" (Augustine)

• "He shall harass the world with an intolerable rule; shall mingle things divine and human; shall contrive things impious to relate, and detestable" (Lactantius)

• "And there is therefore in this beast, when he comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire...since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels." (Irenaeus)

• "He shall sit in the Temple of God as if he were Christ, and leading astray those who worship him." ( Irenaeus)

• “Nor let any one wonder that we are harassed with increasing afflictions, when the Lord before predicted that these things would happen in the last times, Nor let any one of you, beloved brethren, be so terrified by the fear of future persecution, or the coming of the threatening Antichrist, as not to be found armed for all things by the evangelical exhortations and precepts, and by the heavenly warnings. Antichrist is coming… but immediately the Lord follows to avenge our sufferings and our wounds. (Cyprian)

• "then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands...but they that endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first, the sign of an out-spreading in heaven; then the sign of the sound of the trumpet; and the third, the resurrection of the dead; yet not of all, but as it is said: The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him. Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven." (The Didache)

_______

***Edited to include quote from The Didache


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 2015/7/24 12:23Profile
yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re:

With respect to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4:

1. The Greek word for "falling away" is "apostasia". Is the verse referring to apostasy among Christians/churches, or among non-Christians?

The latter interpretation is troublesome, because non-Christians are already in a fallen state, so to speak.

2. Does the falling away happen before the antichrist is revealed, or in conjunction with that? (c.f. what does "first" mean?)

 2015/7/24 12:37Profile
yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re:

I found this interesting commentary written by Jeffrey Weima (Professor of New Testament at Calvin Theological Seminary): http://bit.ly/1GL2kfP

His answer to Question 2 is that the grammar is ultimately ambiguous, it's not clear whether the great apostasy and the unveiling of the antichrist are sequential or simultaneous events.

As for Question 1, he has a Calvinist take on the passage. He believes in the perseverance of the saints, and argues that as every human has an original relationship to his Creator (via God's revelation of Himself in creation, c.f. Romans 1), it is possible to speak of rebellion against God and thus apostasy among non-Christians.

 2015/7/24 12:51Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

The early church fathers were unanimous that the Roman Empire was the hindrance to the man of sin being revealed. The reformers, reading this Thess. passage with Daniel 7, were unanimous that the man of sin was the papacy. It all fits very nicely

The term antichrist is only used twice in scripture and both times it does not refer to a specific individual.

In Paul's writings the temple of God is never the Jewish temple but rather the Church (see 1 Cor. 3:16 and 2 Cor. 6:16). The idea of the papacy setting up its throne within the Church therefore makes sense, along with some of the things mentioned in Daniel 7 that this "man" is said to do.


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Todd

 2015/7/24 12:54Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
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 Re: Is approval of homosexual behavior the great falling away?

Brother,

I think it is an example of the "lovers of self", etc. that Paul discusses in 2 Timothy 3. That list is particularly directed at the "last days" condition of people.

As far as I can tell, this is not optional. This is mandatory: Satan MUST assault the image of God. It is his rebellious nature and it is his overarching goal.

Follow me on this for a sec.

1. Man is God's highest creation. (Gen. 1, 2; Ps. 8:4, 5; Ephesians 2:1-10)

2. Man is made in God's image. (Gen. 1, 2)

3. God is triune; He is a community within Himself, needing no other. (Gen. 1, 2; John 1:1-18; Acts 17:25)

4. Man's creation was not good with him being alone, without community; therefore, God made it "good" when He made "male and female" "in His image" and "joined [them] together" as "one flesh". (Gen. 1, 2)

5. Therefore, marriage and the one-flesh relationship is God's first and lasting revelation of His nature as a community of persons.

6. Satan is God's enemy who works in creation through schemes. (2 Cor. 2:11, Matthew 4:1-11). Those schemes include the harming of people. (Luke 11:13-16)

7. Satan's goal is to prevent any hope of any of God's image-bearers being placed in the Gospel. (Luke 8:11-12)

8. One scheme of Satan is to snatch away hope that has been planted in those who may otherwise believe. (Luke 8)

9. Another scheme of Satan is to prevent the great mass of people from ever seeing the truth by using distortion, deception and thus "blinding" the world to the truth of the gospel. (2 Cor. 4:3-4)

10. Satan is particularly adept at using man's most basic, essential nature against him. We see this in the Garden when Eve is tempted, we see it in the wilderness when Jesus is tempted.

11. Just as eating food and gaining knowledge are inherent qualities we possess, so are self-awareness & self-nurture part of who we are. "No man hates his own flesh, but nourishes it and cherishes it." (Eph. 5:29)

12. Sexuality is part of who we are created to be. "[A] man shall cleave unto his wife...". See, also, 1 Cor. 7:2, 3.

13. Therefore, as part of his last days strategy to mar the image of God in the view of man, and to prevent his hope being placed in the truth, and even snatching away the hope of some who would otherwise believe, Satan will mar and distort the true image of God in the eyes of men as he blinds them to the truth. He can most effectively do this by perverting human understanding of our sexuality as it drives to the heart of who we are created to be and who God is in us.

It is my own personal view that Satan MUST do this now. That it is the perfect time, for Satan's schematic needs, to do this now on a global scale. It is not unreasonable to think so since time is short (getting shorter, too).

Consider, too, in this light, 1 Timothy 4:

Quote:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.



"Forbid marriage" includes hindering or denying it. It isn't sexual abstinence; it is a blocking of that which is good, just like "abstinence from foods" is not about starvation but blocking a life of thankful partaking of that which God blesses for those who "believe and know the truth".

(I know homosexuals now "marry", but it is not marriage as God defines it, it is not the union of two people in one flesh in reflection of His own nature. That's the point of Satan's scheme, right?)

So, yes, in my understanding of Scripture, homosexual conduct and approval of it are symptomatic of the time of the end.


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Tim

 2015/7/24 12:55Profile
TMK
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 Re:

I agree that it is playing a part; however it is not clear that this behavior is worse now or more common now than it was in ancient cultures. In Rome it wasn't even considered taboo and almost expected.


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Todd

 2015/7/24 14:21Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

But, look what happened to Rome. :)

Lesbianism was not accepted in early ancient Rome. When it did become more active later, it was largely in connection with occultism.

Rome was also symbolically referred to as Babylon by John the Apostle in Revelation. The acceptance of homosexual conduct in old Rome doesn't mitigate it as a feature of the time of the end. And, homosexuality in Rome included pedophilia. Tacitus, the 1st and 2nd century AD Roman historian, described Nero's transvestitism and pedophilia in much the same kind of language we hear about Bruce Jenner now.

Seutonius, another historian of the day, wrote that Nero married a man who was at the time married to another man. A tri-male marriage.

This conduct did not carry over throughout the world. And, it was fastidiously rejected by the early church in spite of the culture. This must be emphasized!! The Holy Spirit moved on His people to reject the culture event then.

In the Didache, written in the 2nd century AD as an early form of catechism for Christians, distinguished explicitly between the way of life and the way of death. Among its teachings were that Christians were to NOT have illicit sex, no sex outside of marriage of a man and woman, no pedophilic sex, no abortion, no infanticide and no pharmakeuseis (drugs/potions). Potions were often to induce abortion. All of these, by the way, were okay by Roman moral standards at the time. Christianity alone stood in the Roman Empire as the voice against all unholy sexual acts.

Is it worse now?

Does it have to be measurably worse? Or, can we consider these features in context of Christianity's rising and falling influence? By the 5th century AD, Rome outlawed same-sex marriages. These practices became less common as the gospel moved into the world as an influential force (in policy even if not in hearts). Now that Christianity is on the wane as an influence in the world (in policy, and seemingly in hearts, too), isn't this fact more likely to place us squarely in the 2 Timothy 3 context? Or, put another way, doesn't it make it more likely that these are the last days since the ancient ways of sin are rising as Christianity is increasingly rejected by the world? This was certainly not the case in ancient Rome as the faith moved from Constantine's day forward.


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Tim

 2015/7/24 16:45Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Hi Tim-

I am by no means saying thing aren't pretty debauched today. They surely are. Just not sure if things are SO much more debauched today than in other prior times.

But I certainly agree that we are in the lower part of a downward spiral. Of course it is entirely possible we are only in the very top part of the spiral and things will get gradually worse over the next 100 years or so until the Lord returns. We really have no way of knowing for sure. For all we know it could be like Mad Max 20 years from now. It all depends on what happens. People keep saying we are in the last days but we have all heard that before. The early church thought they were in the last days.

I recently listened to a book on cd by cormac McCarthy called The Road. That surely painted a grim picture of a not too far future America.


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Todd

 2015/7/24 17:01Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Mad Max....that is a chilling thought.

I believe time is short.

I KNOW 😊 that the Father has the times and seasons under His authority and He has not given us that power. Yet I do honestly think He has equipped us with understanding of the times. I know I am deeply concerned--pained-- to see my neighbors come to Christ.


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Tim

 2015/7/24 18:42Profile





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