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InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Apostolic Credentials......

Quote:
What are the qualifications of a true apostle?



I belive Art Katz answers this question with amazing insight in his book [i]Apostolic Foundations[/i]. I urge you to take the time to read it carefully, you can do so online at the following link;

[url=http://www.benisrael.org/OnlineBooks/apostolic_foundations/af_contents.htm]Apostolic Foundations by Art Katz[/url]

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/5/5 21:06Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Apostolic Credentials......


Brother Lahry you wrote,
"I did check out the web page, but I....well....it did not minister to me" ...

Yeah i'm not surprised, it struck me as a whole lot of unneccesary words to just say "i don't know" too, same as when i tried to find some info/sermons on the gift of "faith" ... :-(

You know i've found that a lot lately in my quest to find any good definitive sermons on the gifts of the Spirit ... Funny how in the callings Christ gives to His Body there are pretty clear definitions of preacher/teacher. evangelist, a whole lot of argument about prophet, and next to nothing being clear about the apostle ...

Same thing with the gifts of the Spirit, the ones folks can seem to get there heads wrapped around they explain, the ones they can't they discard :-P (hey come to thing of it thats what done with the "callings" also) ...

Have you checked out brother Ron's link to Art Katz at Burning Bush? ... i'll be looking with interest as this thread delves deeper ...

Hmmmm ... i guess before the credentials can even be talked about, first has to be defined even what an "apostle" is ... i look forward to learning!

 2005/5/6 7:10Profile









 Re: Hey Rahmy

Thanks dear brother. I'm glad you understand. Prophets are not called by man ,elected by popular vote or trained by man. Neither are apostles. Yes, I know about Samuel and Elisha. But they were mentored and then anointed by God. Prophecy comes directly from God. I can't see how someone would suggest that somebody who wanted to be a prophet (desiring a good work) could attend "prophecy 101" and come out on the other side speaking from God. Anyone who would suggest such a thing in my humble opinion would be doing so purely for monetary gain and promotion of self.
One other thing, there is no biblical precidence for women apostles. Shalom.

 2005/5/6 7:19
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re:

Quote:
You know i've found that a lot lately in my quest to find any good definitive sermons on the gifts of the Spirit ... Funny how in the callings Christ gives to His Body there are pretty clear definitions of preacher/teacher. evangelist, a whole lot of argument about prophet, and next to nothing being clear about the apostle ...

Same thing with the gifts of the Spirit, the ones folks can seem to get there heads wrapped around they explain, the ones they can't they discard (hey come to thing of it thats what done with the "callings" also) .



Quote:
Thanks dear brother. I'm glad you understand. Prophets are not called by man ,elected by popular vote or trained by man. Neither are apostles. Yes, I know about Samuel and Elisha. But they were mentored and then anointed by God. Prophecy comes directly from God. I can't see how someone would suggest that somebody who wanted to be a prophet (desiring a good work) could attend "prophecy 101" and come out on the other side speaking from God. Anyone who would suggest such a thing in my humble opinion would be doing so purely for monetary gain and promotion of self.
One other thing, there is no biblical precidence for women apostles. Shalom.



I am with you dear Brothers! I think I have over-extended:knockedout: myself over the past few days, so I will sit this one out, please continue to [b]stir[/b] me as you do so well.

James



_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/5/6 7:46Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Apostolic Credentials......



Brother Lahry you wrote:
“I can't see how someone would suggest that somebody who wanted to be a prophet (desiring a good work) could attend "prophecy 101" and come out on the other side speaking from God. Anyone who would suggest such a thing in my humble opinion would be doing so purely for monetary gain and promotion of self”.


As brother Ravenhill would say do you mean like in “cemetery … uhhhh i mean seminary” … :-P

I was just thinking when I got up this morning that Holy Spirit breezed thru upon 120 (i presume) ordinary folk (12 of which we know for sure) such as ourselves waiting on Him and via these unlearned multiplied the Church by 3,000 …

There’s so much to be said for just laying on our faces before Him in solemn assembly and just “waiting” on Him …

 2005/5/6 9:50Profile









 Re: Rahmy

Preach it!! Amen and amen. \o/

 2005/5/6 21:04
RaymondE
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 2
Pontiac, Michigan

 Re:

Hi Ron,

I recently met Art Katz, who, in my opinion, is both a proven apostle and prophet of God according to the "calling and election" given to Him by the Chief Apostle, our Messiah (Yeshua Ha Mashiach), The Lord Jesus Christ! Christ is all and in all! (Colossians 3:11)

Art Katz has confirmed many of the "unctions" that I received, in part, in 1970 concerning the mystery of Israel and the Church (Romans 11), but, was unable to bring them to a mature understanding because of the traditional teachings of the church that I grew up in.

Many in the Body of Christ fail to understand that what makes the Church the Church is "the fullness of Him (Christ) who fills all in all." (Ephesians 1:23 emphasis mine)

In other words, whatever any of us profess to be in Christ, if it is authentically so, then we are acknowledging, foremost, to the principalities and the powers of the air that this is "how" Christ is working in us "in measure" and we can expect the powers of darkness will be given the "authority" to expose us as being true or false, regardless of who we profess to be as "anointed ones," or Christians!

"For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13)

"And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?" (Acts 19:15).

All of us need to answer the question being asked by the principalities and powers of darkness of our present generation, "Who are you?"

Corporately speaking, the whole Church, as the ONE NEW MAN (Ephesians 2:15), is an APOSTLE, PROPHET, EVANGELIST, PASTOR, AND TEACHER to the Jew first, and also to the Gentiles! (Romans 1:16;2:9,10)

One thing is certain about "apostles" and "prophets," in any generation, they are "foundational" to the infrastructure of the Church! (Ephesians 2:20) There can be no true restoration of the "kingdom to Israel," (Acts 1:6) nor the restoration of foundational principles to the Church," (Hebrews 6:1-12) without APOSTLES AND PROPHETS!

As it is written, "If the FOUNDATIONS are destroyed, what can the righteous do?" (Psalm 11:3)

My response is, re-lay the foundations! And the laying of foundations require the specific grace abilities of wise master builders called apostles and prophets! As it is written,

"According to the GRACE OF GOD which was GIVEN TO ME as a WISE MASTER BUILDER I have LAID THE FOUNDATION, and another builds on it. For no other FOUNDATION can anyone lay than that which is laid,which is JESUS CHRIST." (I Corinthians 3:10,11).

The issue of apostles today is the issue of the present day Apostlolic ministry of Jesus Christ, Himself! There is only one Body of Christ whose "Book of ACTions" is still being lived out through the Apostolic, Prophetic, Evangelistic, Pastoral, and Instructional HEADSHIP of Jesus Christ through earthen vessels!




_________________
Raymond E. Wiggins Sr.

 2005/5/8 7:07Profile









 Re: Hey Raymond....

Thanks for your post and you bring out some excellent points. Satan's ploy from the beginning is to smoke screen truth so that truth is not easily discerned. Thus the initiation of this thread and the one like it on prophets.

Prophets, Apostles, and Evangelists are called by God. So are teachers and pastors. I know several evagelists. It's easy to identify the real evangelist, because their fruit is obvious and remains. Souls are being saved. Lives are being changed, and God is getting all the glory, honor, and praise.

I'm not at all familiar with Art Katz, much to my loss I'm sure.

Anointing is everything in church leadership. Unfortunately, a person can be placed into leadership by popular vote. I mean, when Matthias was elected, at least they drew lots AFTER they had recognized two men of God who were already anointed by God.

So back to the enemy, he brings forth all of these prophets and apostles by name, whose personal charisma and talent make it appear they are anointed. That's why we really have to know the Word, because whomever speaks for God will never speak outside the structure and law of scripture. That does not mean that God is without imagination. It just means that all of God's moving among us will not break forth outside of God's true nature. We must recognize the true Shepards voice, even among pastors, since they do 99.9% of the preaching these days. That too is terribly unfortunate and unfair to these noble men of God. They carry absurd burdens of business and have little time to spend with God.
Organizations must have "official" positions. Positioning is not being like Christ. Quite the opposite. Jesus is the Head of the Church and is quite able to lead and guide it. Don't we need leaders? Of course we do, but they should be recognized by their anointing, not by their doctorate in theology.
Finally, it is quite clear that signs and wonders followed the preaching of the word by the apostles. This too has been smoke screened by satan. We really need to pray for discernment here.
So apostles must be special messengers with a message from God, not just a title, called by Jesus Christ Himself, anointed for their service, with signs and wonders following.

We must also be careful with emotionalism. (Yea I know I said finally, but wait, there's more)When Jesus touches someone, they become emotional. But emotion does not necessarily mean that Jesus has manifest His glory in somebody. In times past when revivals have broken out and the saints became emotional. However, it eroded into an unwritten legalistic declaration that if there was no emotional display in a meeting, then the pastor was not anointed and God did not manifest Himself. This is not true and very unfortunate. Certainly those of us who were not saved yesterday have withnessed this in grand fashion observing and even being caught up in the "charasmatic renewal".
Flesh will always want to organize and legalize. Jesus said, follow me. So we must all follow Him, be we apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers, pastors, greeters, custodians, missionaries, gardeners, servers, or whatever the Body needs. To not follow Jesus is to miss Him completely. The line starts at the cross. See you there.

 2005/5/8 7:38
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

InTheLight wrote:
I belive Art Katz answers this question with amazing insight in his book [i]Apostolic Foundations[/i]. I urge you to take the time to read it carefully, you can do so online at the following link;

[url=http://www.benisrael.org/OnlineBooks/apostolic_foundations/af_contents.htm]Apostolic Foundations by Art Katz[/url]



Amen...This book is amazing. My life has never been the same since reading:-). For those who want a taste, before reading, try [url="http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=3360"]What is Apostolic?[/url], by Katz (May require a few hearings to fully appreciate, though).


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2005/5/8 8:08Profile





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