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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Revelation 22:10-11

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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3185
Texas

 Re:

I have left a lot of Bible studies in my travels when they ventured off into Revelation, it's a very hard book to understand, well it is for me.

Maybe it's saying those who hear the truth but continue to do wrong will by that hardened response, fix their eternal destiny in hell. On the other hand, those who continue to practice righteousness and keep themselves holy give evidence of genuine saving faith. When Christ returns the deliberate choice of each person will have fixed his eternal fate. We cannot cover up from God, he sees into the heart, If you are a sinner, He already knows it, you do not have to tell Him. If you belong to Jesus, He knows that too. Whatever you are down deep, Jesus already knows.


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Mr. Bill

 2015/6/18 18:49Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1153
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Rvelation 22:10-11

Please understand this is not submitted in contentious spirit but in an earnest seeking of the truth-
The commentary submitted by Sister Lysa from another saint is incorrect in assuming Jesus is speaking in this verse, as it is in fact His angel who in the preceding verse refused the worship of John who is speaking. Jesus speaks in vs 7,12,13 and in vs 16 confirms it was His angel that had been testifying to John.
Wether or not it is predictive/prophetic is for me not the issue so much as it is the fact this indeed seems to be quite clearly a fixed position at the point in time in which it occurs.
Brother Todd I do agree that it would be unwise to present this passage to an unbeliever as you stated would almost certainly squash any hope of being reconciled to God, however to the initiated it would serve along with several other passages to be a warning of great significance.
Again there are numerous passages like this one that, taken in context, call out to us to awaken and live a sober and holy life before the Lord.


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Fletcher

 2015/6/18 19:43Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1694


 Re:

We can present this passage to unbelievers as well, if Bible can present it then why should we not? Let us not think of our self more wiser than God or his spirit.

The reason we have those verses at the end of Revelation which also happens to be the last book of the Bible is, God wants to send a clear message. Even after reading this book that is inspired by me, if you still want to do evil then do it. If you still want to be filthy after all these warnings and demonstration of love then let it be so.

We all have a wrong image of God as if someone who is begging for us to obey him. Or a picture of Jesus as a man who is longing for any kind bride to marry. In reality it is not so. God has all rights to give up on a person, we read that God himself hardened the heart of Pharaoh. We read that God himself will send a deluding spirit on those who do not love the truth. We also read that God's spirit will not strive with men for a long time.


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Sreeram

 2015/6/19 6:22Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

Online!
 Re:

I quoted this verse recently in the thread about Tony Campolo endorsing 'same sex marriage'. Not sure if that is was sparked off Sandra's meditation on this?

The context in which I quoted this was that if someone is established in unrighteousness, they will continue to bear more and more fruit of unrighteousness and conversely the opposite is true. This is not a truth limited to this scripture in Revelation, but is seen in many other places in scripture. For example in Matt 7:17-18 Jesus said:

“Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
“A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit."

So regarding Tony Campolo and those like him, he previously had unrighteous views of God's attributes and righteous decrees and God is just handing him over to more and more depths of unrighteousness.

So please do not try and evade certain scriptures as being less true than others because they are in Revelation. Look for the same truth elsewhere in scripture.


The extreme 'free grace' position often paints a picture that is not true. i.e. that God declares a person 'righteous' even if they continue to live in unrighteousness. Scripture teaches the exact opposite. God gives His righteous to a person on the basis of faith, but that righteousness by faith produces the fruit of righteousness in a person.

"In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother."
1 John 3:10

I wonder if over the years there has been a big error in the interpretation and application of the scriptures that state 'The righteous shall live by faith'. It is commonly interpreted as 'by faith you will be declared righteous' When in fact it does not say this. It says 'Those who are righteous will live a life of faith(or faithfulness).

I also think what Sree wrote was very true.


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Dave

 2015/6/19 7:05Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5231
NC, USA

 Re:

Sree I agree that no scripture should be "hidden" from an unbeliever. My point is that you can't take these verses at the end of Revelation apart from the whole counsel of God revealed in the scriptures. Our attitude should be that we never know when it is too late for a sinner to repent. God may know, but we don't.

We should never tell a sinner, based on these verses in Revelation, "go on being filthy, it is too late for you." Can we use them to warn of what might happen if they don't repent now? Absolutely.


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Todd

 2015/6/19 7:12Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7431
Mississippi

 Re:

Dave,

My question was not provoked by your comments concerning Tony Campolo - in fact I did not even read it...sorry! Personally, I dismissed him a long time ago for being an authentic Believer.

QUOTE:
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The extreme 'free grace' position often paints a picture that is not true. i.e. that God declares a person 'righteous' even if they continue to live in unrighteousness. Scripture teaches the exact opposite. God gives His righteous to a person on the basis of faith, but that righteousness by faith produces the fruit of righteousness in a person.
____________________________________________________________

We are now having to deal with this issue amongst us...seems like the devil is finding new ways to twist scripture in a manner unknown to us in the past. or, maybe it is a newer version of OSAS.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2015/6/19 9:19Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7431
Mississippi

 Re:

Fletcher,

I love the commentary you just shared. I would understand it to be Biblical.

Talk about the mercy of God, I was really struck by this evidence when I read Revelation 21 where we read how the Holy City's foundation has the names of the apostles, and its gates the names of the Sons of Israel. Think about that for a moment. These fellows did not always do the right thing - especially the sons of Israel- they were jerks, sometimes. Or, look at Peter - denying his LORD! But the difference is they repented. Now Jesus has their names emblazed in "stones" for all eternity!! Think about that a while... WOW!!

Now where does that put us?

Another verse that troubles many, ignored my most Bible teachers is one found in Hebrews 10:26: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins".

Fletcher, thank-you so much for sharing your analysis of how the over-stating of mercy has resulting in its perversion in the minds of many. Much food for thought...

Enjoyed reading the comments left by the others.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2015/6/19 9:44Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1153
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Sister Sandra,
We are definitely on the same page as the points you bring out clearly illustrate the reality of God's faithfulness and mercy and how bountiful His rewards are for those who love Him. It's overwhelming really to even consider the amazing honor bestowed,as you pointed out, on people who don't always get it right. Indeed He is not a hard task master but a loving Father whose patience and kindness are beyond my ability to comprehend.
Take Paul, the super apostle, for example well into his ministry and at a spiritually mature point in his relationship with God even he "gets it wrong" and is a disagreeable "jerk" with John Mark, tho as you pointed out later "he repented" and issued a reconciliatory invitation requesting his presence and confirming his value/profitability in the cause of Christ.
While there would seemingly be no need of mercy in Heaven, the evidence of Gods mercy will, as you pointed out, be on display emblazoned for all of eternity!
Jesus remarks of this to his disciples when He tells them not to become puffed up because the demons submit in His name but rather rejoice because their names would be written on the walls of Heaven!
King Asa is another illustration of this phenomenon, tho he clearly failed in areas of faith at a time when he should have been steady as an oak tree, God nonetheless pronounced him faithful all of his days and having served the Lord with integrity. Now that is some kind of mercy!
It seems it's not so much about "getting it right" as it is about being righteous,.. The Lord knew Asa'a heart was to serve and glorify Him even tho he failed at times in his attempts to do so God nonetheless honored Asa's effort just as He did David and so many others when their heart was right before Him.
So as far as I can see the Rev 22:11 verse doesn't detract from the mercy of God but brings balance by declaring that at some point our heart position becomes fixed, not in a static sense, but in a directional sense progressing down our chosen path.


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Fletcher

 2015/6/19 11:01Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3686
Ca.

 Re:

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

There is only One that justifies, there is only One that is just, there is only One that is clean and cleanses, there is only One that is righteous, There is only One that is Holy.

Because Christ is birthed by the Father in me I am all these things in His Power by "Christ in me, the hope of glory".

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

I am holy because He that lives in me is Holy.
1 Peter 1:16 Because <dioti> it is written <grapho>, Be ye <ginomai> holy <hagios>; for <hoti> I <ego> am <eimi> holy <hagios>.

Who makes me clean? Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

All these blessings came to the body of Christ when each one was saved and born again receiving the birth of the Spirit of Christ in me, "The hope of Glory". Jesus also gave each of his birthed brothers and sisters "The another Comforter the Holy Spirit to keep us in these blessings bestowed on us because "Christ liveth in me",

These things I work toward by His power that worketh in me Mightily.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Without Christ in me I would be the lost and parishing to what these scripture speak to. But the Christ in me is all this in me which the Father sees as me, making me a son of God and fellow Heir with Jesus Christ to all that is the Father.

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: This is the holiness by His birthing in me which brings my ability to see Him.

In Christ: Phillip (I agree all 146 times "in Christ" is written by Paul.


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Phillip

 2015/6/20 7:43Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5231
NC, USA

 Re:

Daniel 12:9-10:

9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.


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Todd

 2015/6/20 16:42Profile





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