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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : This Protestant Denomination Just Blessed Same-Sex Marriage

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 This Protestant Denomination Just Blessed Same-Sex Marriage

France's United Protestant Church (EPUdF) voted on Sunday to allow pastors to bless same-sex marriages, two years after Paris legalized gay nuptials amid protests backed by the majority Roman Catholic Church.

The EPUdF, created in 2012 in a merger of France's Lutheran and Reformed churches, said its synod also agreed that individual pastors or parishes can decide whether or not they will organize such blessings.

Protestants make up about two percent of the population in France, and two-thirds of them are evangelicals and mostly against same-sex marriage. About two-thirds of the French identify themselves as Catholic, although regular church attendance is in the single figure percentages.

"The synod has decided to take a step forward in accompanying people and these couples by opening the possibility of celebrating liturgical blessings if they want," said Laurent Schlumberger, president of the United Protestant Church.

The vote produced a large majority for the blessings, but Schlumberger acknowledged that "different opinions remain in our Church on this question."

from: http://www.charismanews.com/world/49680-this-protestant-denomination-just-blessed-same-sex-marriage


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2015/5/18 14:54Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7429
Mississippi

 Re: This Protestant Denomination Just Blessed Same-Sex Marriage

I expect in time most 'church' bodies will accept homosexual unions just like they do divorce and remarriage. It is not a matter of if but when. Even the larger church body of which I belong to - Mennonite - is grappling with this issue. Churches are being realigned into different conferences based upon their acceptance of same-sex unions. And it was not all that long ago when divorce was an issue. Now that it isn't, pressure is there to accept women pastors and same sex marriages.

Those who believe in Biblical marriages are few and far in between. And it is causing a lot of grief - can't trust those who share your religious heritage anymore.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2015/5/18 21:25Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1691


 Re:

Sister the root for all these problems is - Churches are trying to please men than to please God. Paul clearly said that if I am trying to please men then I cannot serve God (Gal 1:10).
But this attitude to please men is naturally inside us. We kind of think that serving men and pleasing them is to please God. But that is not true.

I am frequently invited to a pentecostal Church to share God's word. I am very careful not to disturb their doctrine and speak on my understanding of Holy Spirit. But one brother who accompanied me for this meeting told me to speak what the Lord wants me to speak rather than trying to win their approval. If the Lord wants me to speak on incorrect usage of tongues then I have to speak, even if they stop inviting me as a speaker anymore.


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Sreeram

 2015/5/19 5:59Profile
lovejt
Member



Joined: 2005/11/5
Posts: 121


 Re: This Protestant Denomination Just Blessed Same-Sex Marriage

i was just wondering.......was there ever a big uproar 'within the church' when divorces were becoming more acceptable in church? During the 70s? When did the divorce rate start to go upwards? It must've been gradual at first then suddenly went up quickly?


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james

 2015/5/23 17:45Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3174
Texas

 Re:

I understand sin is sin, but for folks to compare divorce to being homosexual is not comparing apples to apples. Divorce and remarriage is not applicable to the same-sex marriage debate. First of all, there are arguably some circumstances where divorce and remarriage are biblically permitted. Most evangelical Christians acknowledge that sexual immorality can dissolve a marital union, and that innocent party is then free to remarry (Matt. 5:32).

Homosexuality is totally different, Homosexuality is a lifestyle characterized by a particular sexual behavior, the endorsement of which requires the rejection of historical doctrine and hermeneutics and the adoption of a new moral code for conservatives. While each divorce is a singular event, the practice of same sex attraction and activity is either in accordance with church doctrine or it is not.

Scripture and the church will always discriminate among right and wrong behavior and should be very clear, and sexual activity will always have a moral dimension. The church would be greatly diminished if it were to avoid such a vital part of our humanity.


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Mr. Bill

 2015/5/23 20:07Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1930


 Re: Sodomites <=> Remarriage


MrBillPro,

Thanks for your post which addressed the ignorance and arrogance of the following statement made by one who ought to consider the Writings of Menno Simons on this subject,who is the founder of the denomination known as the Mennonites. Menno would be in agreement with you MrBillPro. As would his contemporary and co-worker Bishop Dietrich Phillip. Jakob Ammann(founder of the Amish)would also agree with you as well. As would the Martyrs Mirror published in Holland in 1660 in Dutch by Thieleman J. van Braght. All Mennonites approve of this work by van Braght.
I have read such writings and I'd encourage others to do the same.

Here is the ignorant and arrogant statement:

"I expect in time most 'church' bodies will accept homosexual unions just like they do divorce and remarriage."

Thanks again for your post MrBillPro!

Thou shalt not lie with mankind,as with womankind:it is abomination. Lev. 18:22
If a man also lie with mankind,as he lieth with a woman,both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surely be put to death;their blood shall be upon them. Lev. 20:13

 2015/5/24 2:40Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3174
Texas

 Re:

Going a little deeper here, I have a question, why do some Christians feel the need to even entertain the justification of Homosexual relationships or same sex marriage? Also comparing the graphic nature of a homosexual relationship to divorce, is just off the scale. In my opinion, compromise has invaded the Church, and has been in the Church for a long time now. Thank God, there are still a few non-compromising Christians out there, that know the word, and stick to the word, and don't move an inch to try and justify things that the world says are ok. I would like to toss this question out to anyone that's wants to respond on this forum, why do you feel the need to try and justify same sex marriages or homosexual relationships, because neither are Biblical, nor God approved.


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Mr. Bill

 2015/5/24 11:10Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1930


 Re: their heritage or not their heritage



One poster has written, "...the larger church body of which I belong to - Mennonite...is causing a lot of grief - can't trust those who share your religious heritage anymore."

The following info on Michael Sattler is from the book Mennonites in Europe. This history book discusses the faith, teachings, and character of the early Anabaptists and Mennonites. It is a 428 page book published by Rod and Staff Publishers.

"February 24, 1527, Sattler presided over a conference of Swiss Brethren held at Schleitheim in Canton Schaffhausen. He presented to this conference a confession of faith which was approved and adopted without a dissenting voice, and was later printed under the title, "Bruderliche Vereinigung etlicher Kinder Gottes" (Brotherly Agreement of Some Children of God)...

Michael Sattler was captured by the Roman Catholic authorities in Horb, tried on May 17, 1527 at Rottenburg, and was martyred on May 21, 1527. "On the morning of that day this noble man of God, in sight of horrible torture, prayed for his judges and persecutors and admonished the people to repentance. He endured the inhuman torture stipulated in the sentence. Then his mangled body was tied to a ladder. He prayed again for his persecutors while the ladder was placed upon the stake. He had promised his friends to give them a sign from the burning stake, to show that he remained steadfast to the end, enduring it all willingly for Christ. The fire having severed the cords wherewith he was bound, he lifted up his hand for a sign to them. Soon it was noticed that his spirit had taken its flight to be with Him whom he had steadfastly confessed under the most excruciating torture, a true hero of the faith."

The Schleitheim Confession is one of the most important documents in Anabaptist history and became a sort of creed for the Anabaptists. Michael Sattler drafted the confession, along with others, at Schleitheim, Switzerland in 1527.

A lengthy account of Michael Sattler's trial and execution may also be found in Martyrs Mirror.

Here are quotes from Michael Sattler and some others on the subject of remarriage.

I furnish you all with the following, as proof that the present stand on remarriage taken by Mennonites and others of the Anabaptist persuasion, was not and is not shared by the founders of these religious sects, and therefore cannot be appealed to as their heritage in these matters.

In 1533 Michael Sattler wrote,

"He who divorces without fornication, the only reason, and remarries, commits adultery; and he who takes a divorced woman causes her to commit adultery; for Christ says, "These two are one flesh". But he who cleaves to a
harlot, as Paul says, 1 Cor. 6, sins against his own body and is one flesh with the harlot. Thus he is by this act
separated from his own flesh, in that he has attached himself to the alien flesh of the prostitute, and thus the marriage is broken; for they are no longer one flesh, since the fornicator has become one flesh with the harlot. The one who finds herself thereby divorced may now marry, whom she will, only let it be in the Lord"

In the book 'The Complete Writings of Menno Simons', Menno writes,

"These two, one husband and one wife, are one flesh and can not be separated from each other to marry again
otherwise than for adultery, as the Lord says. Matt. 5:19; Mark 10; Luke 16. This is our real position, doctrine, and practice concerning marriage, as we here confess with the holy Scriptures. By the grace of God it will ever remain the position of all pious souls, let them lie and slander as they like. We know and confess truly that it is the express ordinance, command, intent, and unchangeable plain word of Christ. We know too that the bond of undefiled, honorable matrimony is so firm and fast in the kingdom and government of Christ, that no man may leave his wife, nor a wife her husband, and marry another (understand rightly what Christ says), except it be for adultery. We acknowledge, teach, and assent to no other marriage than that which Christ and His apostles publicly and plainly taught in the New Testament, namely, of one man and one woman (Matt. 19:4), and that they may not be divorced except in case of adultery (Matt. 5:32); for the two are one flesh, but if the unbelieving one depart, a sister
or brother is not under bondage in that case. 1 Cor. 7:15"

In 1554, seven key Dutch Anabaptist leaders, including Menno Simons, Dirk Phillips, and Leonard Bouwens met
together in conference to discuss some pressing issues, and the result was the 'Wismar Articles'.

"Article IV. In the fourth place, if a believer and an unbeliever are in the marriage bond together and the unbeliever commits adultery, the marriage tie is broken. And if it be one who complains that he has fallen in sin, and desires to mend his ways, then the brethren permit the believing mate to go to the unfaithful one to admonish him, if conscience allows it in view of the state of the affair. But if he be a bold and headstrong adulterer, then the innocent party is free - with the provision, however, that she shall consult with the congregation and remarry according to circumstances and decisions in the matter, be it well understood."

Dirk Philips , a fellow bishop with Menno Simons and bulwark of the Anabaptist faith, in the Dietrich Phillip Handbook wrote,

"The Lord desired and commanded that men should do this no more (freely divorce their wives for any cause),except in case of fornication, which is the only and true reason or cause for which a man may leave or put away his wife and take another."

In the book, 'Martyrs Mirror', by Thieleman J. van Braght, written in 1660 we read, "In article 25 of a 'Confession of
Faith, according to the Holy Word of God', written about the year 1600, article 25 states that by His words Christ was;

"re-establishing marriage between one man and one woman, and inseparably and firmly binding the bond of matrimony , that they might not, on any account, separate and marry another, except in case of adultery or death."

Around the turn of the eighteenth century, the Anabaptist/Mennonite movement divided into two camps, the Amish Mennonites (a conservative renewal after Jakob Amman), and the Reist Mennonites (the more liberal existing group,named after Hans Reist). In 1779, at Essingen, Germany, the conservative Amish Mennonites convened a conference to reemphasize their doctrinal and disciplinary positions, and the Essingen Discipline was the fruit of that meeting.The very first article of this discipline reads as follows:

"Article One: Concerning the Christian Confession of Faith, just as our forefathers confessed and held to the 33
Articles Confession as it is found in Martyrs Mirror, so do we also hold to the same, together with the Word of God
and the Christian Discipline, and each one shall diligently meditate upon the same and live up to it."

The 33 Articles Confession the conference is referring to here is the very same confession mentioned in the Martyrs Mirror quoted above which states clearly and without the possibility of mistake that one "...might not, on any account, separate and marry another, except in case of adultery or death."

For at least the first 250 years of the Anabaptist/Mennonite movement, the biblical position was maintained. This same position was also expressed
in the old 'Mennonite Catechism' and the 'Shorter Catechism'.

May we all refrain from making any ignorant and arrogant statements as have been made in this thread.

 2015/5/31 7:13Profile









 Re:

"May we all refrain from making any ignorant and arrogant statements as have been made in this thread."
Savannah - this is entirely your own opinion and you can't state it as a fact.
Here is a definition of the word "arrogant":
"having or showing the insulting attitude of people who believe that they are better, smarter, or more important than other people "

Nobody has written with an "insulting attitude " plus your post has nothing to do anymore with the actual thread, you are way off topic.

Paul writes: …Philippians 2:2:make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
And Peter writes: 1 Peter 3:8 Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

 2015/5/31 17:19
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7429
Mississippi

 Re:

Savannah,

What I wrote about divorce and remarriage becoming acceptable, paving the way for homosexual unions to become acceptable, I have personally witnessed myself. I have family, immediate and extended in many branches of Mennonites. You see a lot of changes if you live long enough - been around since 1947.

What all these Mennonite writers had to say about d&r may be interesting but they are not the Holy Writ. It just high lights the weakness of relying on contemporary writers speaking authoritative to issues instead of Scritpure.

I just read on FB a post by a former pastor of a Mennonite church who was defrocked a few years ago for his disbelief in in hell. He wrote recently that he is a twin brother of Jesus Christ! Now, if you were to take his post as standard fare for Biblical Mennonites, you are wrong. We are shocked and mortified - but some praised him!!

Sick, sick, sick.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2015/5/31 21:30Profile





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