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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is it the Last Days? A Video Presentation I Recently Made

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brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.


It feels a strange to have to explain this but,,,John clears says even the ones who believed in Jesus name are 13 born not of flesh but of God

 2015/5/18 5:51Profile









 Re:

Quote:
11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.



As usual Gary you miss out an important word: it says they receive the RIGHT to BECOME the sons of God, not that they are the sons of God, and moreover it says that all of His own do not receive Him.

Quote:
Brenda in the letter Paul says that those whom he writes the letter are the saints even tho they are in sin at that time for numerous reasons



Again Gary it clearly says they are CALLED to be saints not that they are. Both verses are consistent with my theology.

 2015/5/18 6:20
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 653
Missouri

 Re:

Jason,

Again, while there is much that I find agreement with you, its your conclusions that don't seem to match up with your experience.

Your conclusion about Church history is neither theologically sound nor historically accurate. It's based off of a very narrow reading of Scripture, and requires a complete knowledge of every event of all of Church history that only God has.

Your conclusion about the new birth is in conflict with your own testimony. Ray Comfort and others would teach the very same thing about going down in death with Christ and being raised to new life with Him. I don't know any godly man or woman who wouldn't say 'Amen' to such a testimony. However, you then develop the same conclusion as the modern hyper-grace message which I find puzzling.


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2015/5/18 8:47Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Brenda--

"Called to be saints" sounds like past tense to me.

For example, college freshmen were accepted as students at the college. It is not something in the future. They ARE students.

The same logic applies to the language regarding Paul's audience being give the right to be called sons of God. It's past tense, not future. To reach another conclusion requires twisting of scripture.


_________________
Todd

 2015/5/18 13:59Profile









 Re:

ARE called or WERE called? Any Greek scholars here?

 2015/5/18 14:14









 Re:

Greg said:

Quote:
If you have not been able to find anyone else who has the same understanding as you do, then how do you know you are right and not deceived? Would it not make sense if what you are believing is true at least some others would see exactly the same things?



And in another post Greg said again:

Quote:
[What to me is most concerning, is that you can believe things how you believe and not be able to find one other believer who see's things exactly how you do. This should be a red flag in your mind that you are deceived by the enemy and that others in church history, namely everyone is not in agreement with your views.



Greg, can I ask you this: If I said that I knew of one other person who saw things exactly as I did (outside of my wife and kids) would you be any less concerned? If I could confirm to you that there are two of us in the world who hold to the same beliefs, would this cause you to reconsider your doubts about me and the things I believe? If two people are not enough to cause you to reconsider your doubts, then what about 5 or 10 or 100 or 1000? What if I could show you that 10 million people shared my beliefs, would that make them any more valuable?

If your answer is yes, if you feel that my beliefs would be worthy of consideration if more people shared them, then I ask you why? Why do you think that the popularity of an idea adds to its value? After all, if popularity is the scale by which truth is discerned, then shouldn’t we all take a serious look at Islam? Since there is 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, they must have the truth. Or how about Hinduism? Certainly 1 billion people wouldn’t believe something if it wasn’t true.

However, with that said, I am guessing that you will answer no to my question. I am guessing that you will say that even if 10 million people shared my belief, you wouldn’t entertain the idea that it could be truth. I am guessing that you will say that the popularity of an idea adds no weight to its legitimacy.

So if I am correct and this is your answer, I now ask you this: If you don’t feel that popularity should be used as a measuring rod for truth, then why are you encouraging me to question my beliefs and conclusions just because they are not popular.

I realize that you are concerned for me, and I realize that you are trying to stir me out of the deception that you believe I am in. And you apparently felt/feel that the fact that I have not yet met anyone who shares my understanding should be recognized by me as a huge red flag. However, this fact troubles me not in the least. And the sole reason that this does not trouble me is because I believe that a truth is truth whether anyone believes it or not. A truth doesn’t need to be approved by the masses in order for it to stand as a truth.

The fact that two plus two equals four is a fact. It is a fact when 7 billion people believe it, and it is a fact even when only one person believes it (and even if no one believes it, it is still a fact). The value of this truth is not at all affected by its popularity.

So you see? The problem is, and the reason I can’t see this as a red flag is because I am 100 percent confident that the things I believe are truth, and because of that confidence, I am not bothered or alarmed in the least by the fact that I appear to be alone.

Now, if I had even the slightest bit of doubt that I was correct, then it might be wise to consider the fact that I appear to be alone in my beliefs and conclusion. But since I have no such doubt, this fact does not trouble me or concern me at all. (If you really understood how I came to understand these things, you would know why I am so confident that it is the truth. I am not saying that you would also believe it as truth, but I am only saying that you would understand why I am so confident that it is the truth).

With that all said, I should probably add that I am fairly certain that I am not the only one on this earth who currently understand these things. And if by chance I am currently the only one, I know for certain that that won’t be the case for too much longer. For God has promised a season in which his truth will be restored. And I am fairly certain that that season of restoration has either begun or it is about to begin.


 2015/5/19 2:38









 Re:

TMK wrote on 2015/5/18 13:59:48:

Quote:
"Called to be saints" sounds like past tense to me.

For example, college freshmen were accepted as students at the college. It is not something in the future. They ARE students.

The same logic applies to the language regarding Paul's audience being give the right to be called sons of God. It's past tense, not future. To reach another conclusion requires twisting of scripture.




“For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings” (Hebrews 2:10). God’s Master Plan is to make us perfect through sufferings so that we can share in Christ’s Glory and be joint heirs with Him. The suffering of believers is what produces sons of God.

 2015/5/19 4:18
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Jesus was God's son before he suffered.

I am not saying that once you are saved God is done working on you. Of course He isn't.


_________________
Todd

 2015/5/19 7:19Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Jason

Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety. Proverbs 11:14.

I cite this verse as only one important authority in the Word that speaks to the necessity of having brethren in agreement as to what truth is. Not that popularity secures anything, but that by design the biblical body of Christ must be many members and not only one. The functioning of those members requires multiplicity and accountability. In this current understanding that you embrace, there is neither. You have argued with the very gospel you say that you alone believe and know purely. Do you not see that by eliminating the entire church from being truly His and by asserting you and a handful of phantoms as the sole believers on earth who know the truth about the gospel that you are doing the very thing that you indict the whole historical church as guilty of doing?




_________________
Tim

 2015/5/19 7:37Profile









 Re:

What is this clear 'error' that Jason is in?

I asked some clarifying questions but didn't get any responses. He doesn't like Ray Comfort's way of evangelism, I don't remember any of Paul's writings that mentioned Ray Comfort.

I've seen two moderators criticize his 'false gospel' and he retorts with 'led astray'. I don't think either side is being hard/callous on the other, I'm just strongly concerned with jumping to conclusions and using damning language. (It's damning because 'false gospel's don't save...)

I find these words strange since 'By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another' (John 13:35). Someone isn't demonstrating the words of Jesus. Can we all please keep a watchful eye on our words?

I'd like to hear a detailed explanation of this 'false gospel'. Some of what Jason's writings remind me of Finney, other parts Calvin but this is where I'm confused.

 2015/5/19 11:46





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