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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is it the Last Days? A Video Presentation I Recently Made

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
Sincere repentance is not turning from sin and believing in Jesus because you realize you are a razor’s edge away from eternal torment. Instead, sincere repentance is turning to God with all your love and devotion simply because you recognize him as the good and wonderful God that he is. When someone sincerely repents, there is not one selfish motive behind it. It is all done completely for the glory and pleasure of God.



Jason,

There are many points I could discuss and bring up as Oracio mentioned. I am pretty sure from your statements that you do not believe that sin in man is a problem. That we are full of such great sin and wickedness that the only remedy was God himself punishing his son on our behalf.

The problem is you are not able to love and seek God because of your sin, the only remedy is Jesus Christ himself.

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

What to me is most concerning, is that you can believe things how you believe and not be able to find one other believer who see's things exactly how you do. This should be a red flag in your mind that you are deceived by the enemy and that others in church history, namely everyone is not in agreement with your views.

We judge things in our small contexts, and for you to repudiate the church is repudiating only the churches you know of or your bad experience of american apostate churches.

Do you believe Jesus is God in the flesh?

I think it could be helpful for you to also consider these questions to yourself and think through how you came to your conclusions.

Does your wife agree with your doctrine? Is she saved? do you have children? do they believe these things?

So your opinion is the New Testament Church fully apostatized right after the death of the Apostles? Somewhere A.D. 100 -130?

Was there traces of this wrong "Church" system in the New Testament or did this all just happen after the New Testament was written?

If you have not been able to find anyone else who has the same understanding as you do, then how do you know you are right and not deceived? Would it not make sense if what you are believing is true at least some others would see exactly the same things?

EDIT: What are the "her core doctrines" specifically?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2015/5/15 17:38Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2722
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 Re: Is it the Last Days? A Video Presentation I Recently Made

Jason,

Could you tell us what you make of Duncan Campbell's description of events in the Hebrides revival when he spoke of a young girl crying out at the pulpit, "is there mercy for me, is there mercy for me, is there mercy for me?!?"; or when he described that the work of God as He moved upon the people was to cause them to know that they were hell deserving sinners?

Was that real revival?


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Ron Halverson

 2015/5/15 20:06Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

2 Cor. 7:10
For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

Grief? That is the simple word of God. Grief produces repentance. Not a comprehension of God's beauty. It never says that seeing God's glory or His beauty or His love produces a change of mind. Not saying those things cannot, but the word says grief produces repentance.

Grief. Mourning. Sadness. Sorrow. Heaviness of heart.

These are qualities of heart that emerge quickly when sinful man encounters a holy God. Isaiah lamented his sinfulness in the presence of the Holy One. He used the word "woe". He saw the glory, majesty and beauty of God and said "woe is me".

By the way, so did you, Jason. You came to this point of seeing the beauty of God as so encompassing after your conversion. This was a growth point. It was not a revelation from Him about the means of salvation and that work in the heart that leads one to metanoia/change of mind/repentance. Your characterizations to the contrary cannot change the word of God.

I know you are sincere and serious. After you walked with Him For a time He taught you a vital truth about Himself, but you have gone too far to stretch that quality about Himself into a threshold issue for salvation and being an orthodox biblical church.


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Tim

 2015/5/15 22:24Profile









 Re:

I do not have time to reply to all these comments at the moment. However, I will leave you with this if you are interested.

A few years after writing "Keep the Fire Burning" I felt the need to add an update. I added the update to the original Keep the Fire Burning thread. It begins on the sixth page of that thread (assuming your are logged out).

I warn you now, it is quite long, but if you are interested, it is was I would call the long version of my "testimony" (I am not really crazy about that word, but I lack a better one at the moment). It does not only tell "how" I became a child of God, but it also shares the glorious result of becoming his child. It is fairly in depth and should enlighten you at to what exactly it is that I believe in regards to the gospel.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that it is/was very well written. I am currently in the process of rewriting it, but it is a long way from being complete. So all I can offer you now is the rougher version that is available within the "Keep the Fire Burning" thread.

I am sure you will be able to figure it out, but the little question mark symbols are supposed to be apostrophes and quotation marks. This was originally written with the word perfect program and apparently the coding was not completely compatible when I copied it over to Sermon Index.

I think this link will take you directly to the page that contains the writing I am referring to. It begins with the 7th comment from the top.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=340&forum=35&start=50&viewmode=flat&order=0

 2015/5/15 22:55









 Re:

I'm not a fan of Ray Comfort's style but I don't think it's a false gospel.

I have a few questions for you, whenever you get the time.

1. What do you make of 'blessed are those that mourn' in the Sermon on the Mount?
2. How do you understand the Holy Spirit's job of 'conviction'? Are you against this?
3. What is your view of 2 Cor. 7:10 ?

My perspective is this 'your filthy let God clean you' is the common way of presenting the gospel. I'm not against it but I'm also not for it. My perspective is a bit different, 'God became flesh and led the example for us'. I believe Jesus demonstrated the love-affair that should be our daily lives. Not that we constantly need showers.

 2015/5/15 23:01









 Re: Replys to Orcacio and Greg

Oracio said:

Quote:
To hold on to your version of the gospel and your conviction concerning the Body and Bride of Christ, you have to ignore and dismiss so many clear scriptures. I wouldn't know where to start.



While it may be possible for you to pick a few random verses to dispute my “version” of the gospel, I am absolutely certain that the entire context of scripture supports all that I shared in my last post.

Oracio, it is a dangerous thing to cherry pick scriptures and then use those few scriptures to define the whole context of scripture. But that is what the lady who calls herself the church has done. She has carefully chosen a “few” random verses and created a false gospel out of them. She has created a message that the rebellious and foolish will love. And even though it is blatantly obvious that it is opposed to the whole context of scripture, the foolish and rebellious will never be able to see that. They can’t see it for lie that it clearly is because they are under a strong delusion that causes them to see it as the truth.

Oracio, I am sorry to be so blunt (but I do not know any other way to say something of such importance), but the message you call the “gospel” (this message presented by Ray Comfort – and I only use him as one example), is utter foolishness and non-sense. And it has so little scriptural support it is frightening. This “gospel” that you are holding onto is just more of the same wickedness that has been going on since the early days of man. For this message that you call a “gospel” worships the creature, and the invention of this “gospel” is just another fulfillment of Romans 1:24&25
Quote:
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: (25)Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.



If you want to place your faith in a “gospel” that is created from just a handful of cherry picked verses, suit yourself. But as for me, I will stick with the gospel that is confirmed throughout the whole context of scripture. I will stick with the gospel that places God at the center of everything. I will stick with the gospel that has powerfully changed my life. I will stick to the gospel that made me one with Christ. I will stick to the gospel that delivered me from death and the power of sin. I will stick to the gospel that made me a son of God. I will stick with gospel has filled me with the true righteousness of God. This is the gospel to which I hold.



Greg Said:

Quote:
Jason,

There are many points I could discuss and bring up as Oracio mentioned. I am pretty sure from your statements that you do not believe that sin in man is a problem. That we are full of such great sin and wickedness that the only remedy was God himself punishing his son on our behalf.

The problem is you are not able to love and seek God because of your sin, the only remedy is Jesus Christ himself.



I must admit that I am a little bit puzzled by this statement and this belief that a man can’t turn to God in faith and love because of sin.

While I can see a couple of verses that one could use to support this idea. Based on the rest of the entire scripture, I recognize that those verses can’t really mean that.

If you really believe that a man can’t turn to God in faith because he is under the power of sin, then please explain to me how Abraham had faith that pleased God? And not only Abraham, but let’s not forget all the others OT men that God spoke well of. How do you explain Able, Enoch, Noah, Joseph, Joshua, Samuel, David, Daniel, Job, Elijah, and etc. How in the world did these men who were not yet set free from the power of sin please God? All these men lived years before the cross, and yet God smiled upon then. How so? Hebrews 11:39 answers this question and says that they were approved by God because of their faith.

Now, that is not to say that any of these men just woke up one day and randomly decided to serve God. Instead, God had to initiate this work by first calling to each of them. God had to first call to them and shake them out of their slumber.

And so it was for me also. God had to initiate the work by first calling to me. He had to wake up this man who was sleeping. And had he not called to me, I would still be asleep.

So if you think that I think that I came to God strictly of my own accord, you are mistaken and you have failed to take note of all the times I said that God “called” me. He calling was an extremely important part of this process that he began in my life. And had he not called to me, I would have never seen him in his glory and turned to him in faith.

In my experience, the process went something like this:

First God called to me and woke me out of my slumber (at age 29) – I then saw him and his greatness and turned to him with complete allegiance and devotion (I ceased seeking him for my own selfish gain but began to serve him simply because he was worthy of my devotion).

This act of repenting in no way set me free from sin. For I was still as much under the power of sin as before, only now, I truly despised my sin and longed to be cleansed.

Next, in response to my faith, God was pleased, and in his pleasure, he gave me a great gift. He baptized me into his Son Jesus. And through that great miracle, I became “one” with Christ. I became bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. Through that great miracle, I went to death with Christ on the cross. And through my death with Christ, my death penalty was paid. But not only that, through my death with Christ, I was no longer a slave to sin (for how can you be a servant to someone if you are dead?)

After my death with Christ, God raised me from the dead with Christ. As he raised Jesus from the dead he announced: Thou are my son, this day have I begotten thee. And since I was in Christ as this announcement was made, I too was declared to be a Son of God. And the same righteous Spirit that entered into Christ as he rose from the dead, also entered in to me. So as a result of this great miracle, I am now free from the power of sin, and I now produce the fruit of righteousness.

So to answer you original question Greg: Yes, I was once dead in sin. And yes it was a great problem. But if you think that that means that a man can’t respond to God with faith because they are under sin, you are in great error. And the whole context of scripture clearly shows the error of this belief.

Yes, God must start the work. God must first call to a man. But after God has called, the response from the one who is called will not at all be influenced by the fact that they are under sin. Instead, their response will be dictated by wisdom or foolishness. If one is wise, they will respond in faith, if they are foolish, they will ignore his call and go on with their life as before.

Edit -
Greg said:
Quote:
What to me is most concerning, is that you can believe things how you believe and not be able to find one other believer who see's things exactly how you do. This should be a red flag in your mind that you are deceived by the enemy and that others in church history, namely everyone is not in agreement with your views.



Greg, I realize that this is the second time you have ask this, and I want you to know that I am not ignoring the question. I will try to answer it the next chance I get.

 2015/5/17 14:25
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Jason, I submit that your loving response to God's call, a response you attribute to seeing His glory after being awakened to it, was not your conversion. You had an experience that is valid and right, objectively speaking. God put something of Himself into your own spirit that you had not known.

Psalm 84:11 says that the Lord will give grace and glory. You were a beneficiary of His grace. A time in your relationship with Him arrived where, to use your phrasing, it pleased Him to give you something of His glory that you had not known.

John 1:16 says, in John's words of testimony and praise, that of Jesus we have received "grace upon grace." That is what comes to mind as I read you.

It seems rather odd that you would make that newer blessing the test of all salvation and truth. I truly believe you misunderstand the Word and that you are wrestling with the substance of what happened in you. I think it has consumed you to some degree to so understand it that you have inadvertently erred as you search for a cognitive place to make what God has done in you "fit" what you know of His Word.

It is something that has isolated you in some ways.

Might I humbly suggest that you listen to many counsellors? Might I ask that you diligently cross your newer understanding against the counsel of men full of the Spirit? Surely you know them where you live.


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Tim

 2015/5/17 15:56Profile









 Re:

Jason

Bless you brother, l have just read through your testimony, though l will have to go back to it later for a more thorough reading, and l join you in agreement with what l have read, as the same experience l have gone through myself and of having the same revelations particularly regarding the false gospel the Babylonian church is preaching. The gate is narrow indeed and most are asleep and deceived.

I am so encouraged by your writings. You must publish them. They are in line with others who have been illuminated and walked in the Spirit of truth and holiness in past days.

 2015/5/17 18:03
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36863
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Brenda,

Jason is saying that he has not met with anyone else who agrees fully with what he believes as well as no established group is from God. Meaning not just a apostate section of the Church or false churches but rather they are all wrong, even house churches etc.

Jason has not answered my questions on this as this is the core of his problem and it is very dangerous in fact that he is divorcing himself from all of Christianity including all speakers on this website and all of Church history. Do you agree with Jason also, why then are you quoting preachers or on SermonIndex? to me this is a very heretical belief to separate yourself from all of the Church. In most cases believers do this because they visit 20-30 churches in their local area and consider them all lukewarm, apostate or wrong therefore they define their entire worldview in this way sadly.

I write these things out of concern for Jason and also others who would think in these ways. It is a dangerous path, of lack of submission to authority, judging what we do not know.

I am encouraging Jason to answer my questions as well as others, because this is God's mercy to him to think about these things and to not deceive himself to be against everything called Church. This belief is wrong and in no way am I giving free air time to this but rather in mercy allowing saints to interact and help him in this belief.

Jesus said that if we are blind we will see, if we see (confess we know everything) we will become blind. Our view of things is very small.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2015/5/17 18:10Profile









 Re:

Greg

I do not separate myself in body, l meet with others even though they disagree with me and often they separate themselves from me when they discover what l believe or endeavour to silence me which l think is out of Gods will for them to do so. The sermons etc here contain nuggets of truth and l will quote them as truth is truth even if not the whole truth but the only body of believers who represented the true church that l have found since NT days were the early Quakers.

 2015/5/17 18:21





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