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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Dont believe the lie

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budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: hello sonsigns

Hello sonsigns
Your question to me was
Are you saying that Jesus is coming back this year?

My reply to this is No Jesus is not Coming back this year
Jesus has Prophesied all of the events that must take place before He returns.
Jesus prophesied that the beginning of sorrows or the birth pangs will happen before He comes, Jesus prophesied the Tribulation must come and end before He comes, Jesus Prophesied that the signs in the sky after the Tribulation must happen before He Comes.
Jesus said that when we see all these signs and the signs in the sky after the Tribulation then He will be at the door, then we are to look up, then we are to lift our heads as our redemption draws nigh, but of that day and hour of His Coming no one knows, but Jesus said to learn the parable of the tree for these signs, as you see the new growth on a tree as summer draws near So it will be when we see all these signs and we know He is Coming.
Jesus tells us Truth, Jesus said "see I have told you so beforehand"
Jesus will not be Coming this year, trust in the words of Jesus not man.

 2015/4/11 5:09Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: Hello Lysa

I am glad you are reading the Book When a Jew Rules the World, I am finding it to be one of the best and most challenging books to read and do believe every believer should be reading this book.
In the same way Daniel wept and cried out in Repentance for what Israel had done against God, every believer should be weeping and repenting for the most selfish and tragic sins done against the broken off branches of the Olive Tree.
Paul was right, us Gentiles should not be arrogant or boast against the Natural branches that were broken off, if God had never been severe against the disobedient unbelieving Israel branches then we disobedient and unbelieving gentiles would have never known His Loving kindness and would have never become the children of God.
We should show the same Mercy to Israel that God showed us so that they may also come back into the family and then the Resurrection of the Dead.

 2015/4/11 5:48Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: Come up hither

Sadly many today believe doctrines of men with no scriptural verse to support the lies.
Again Jesus tells us exactly when He Comes, in the Book of Revelation which is His Revelation Jesus tells us exactly when He comes and it is found in Revelations 19 and 20, Jesus even tells us that this is the time when the Bride has finally made Herself ready, she is clothed in the Righteousness of the Saints, He cannot Come any earlier because the Bride was not yet ready.
There is no Truth at all in the false doctrine of when John himself is instructed to come up to heaven that it is the rapture of the Church to heaven, Jesus Himself said to not add or take away from what He has said in the Book of Revelations this come up is not even the rapture word. It is a false doctrine not supported in scripture.
The whole Prophecy of Revelations was given to His Servants as Truth not just some of it.
Paul said that the Rapture would not take place until after the Resurrection of the dead which happens when Jesus Comes, when the Angels are declaring,when the Trumpet of God is sounding.
Jesus said that the First Resurrection of immortality takes place in Rev 20, Jesus Himself taught a Doctrine that there is only two Resurrections, a Resurrection of the Just and a Resurrection of the unjust. Paul and John and God teaches the same doctrine of two Resurrections.
Let us Trust the words of Jesus not of ear tickling men.
I will trust in the words of Jesus alone, if He states that it is the First Resurrection and that the Bride has finally made herself ready then it is Truth.
Matthew 24 Jesus tells us clearly when He is Coming and it is after the Tribulation has ended.
He could not make it any clearer.

 2015/4/11 6:06Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: The order of events before Jesus Comes

Jesus could not have made it any clearer, there will be wars, rumours of wars, kingdoms against kingdoms, famines, pestilences, earth quakes in various places, many shall be killed for his sake, many shall be offended, many shall be deceived, the gospel shall be preached to all of the nations, the Tribulation shall come, after the Tribulation has ended then there will be signs in the skies, when we see all of these signs then we know our redemption is drawing near, then lift our heads, then look up, but of that day and hour of His Coming after we see all those signs we do not know, but like Jesus said "learn the parable of the tree and when we see all these signs they are like new leaves growing when summer is near and SO likewise we will also know that His Coming is near.
Jesus is not a liar, He has Prophesied what events will happen before He Comes, we will know when to look up and we will know when He is Coming and we will be ready and watching when the Time is Ripe.
Let us all trust in the clear words of Jesus not a doctrine that has no single scriptural support.
Paul Prophesied what must happen before Jesus comes and gathers us to himself.
The whole Bible is full of Prophesy that is declared by God and these Prophesies will be fulfilled.
The First Resurrection will be the First Resurrection as Prophesied and blessed are those that are in the First Resurrection they will Rule and Reign with Christ.
The rapture happens after the Resurrection takes place as Paul so clearly described.
There is only one harvest of the Just, Jesus Himself was the First of Fruits and later the whole Crop will arise at His Coming.

 2015/4/11 6:36Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1403


 Re:

Hi Budgie'
The problem with the post is not that you believe in a Post Tribulation Rapture wrongly in my opinion but that in essence you are calling other spirit filled christians liars because they dont support your view.This isnt a clear cut issue and has been debated over the centuries.So even though I dont believe that it is a Post Tribulation Rapture I dont think Post Tribbers are telling lies or that the devil is behind the doctrine.So I think saying that people with the alternative view are either "Liars" or are decieved and believing "a lie" is more wrong than actually really believing a lie.
In support of the alternative view Jesus said that "It would be as it was in the days of Noah and Lot"
They will eat drink marry etc UNTIL Noah got into the Ark and Lot got taken out of Sodom.There was no judgement until God's People were safe.Jesus pointed out that everything was totally normal with the world including sin "UNTIL" God's peop;e are safe.Then the judgement came immediately after God's People were taken out no gaps in time immediate.

The most important thing about the tribulation debate is this:WHAT IF YOU ARE PREACHING THE WRONG VIEW YOURSELF?
WHAT DAMAGE HAVE YOU DONE?
Yours Staff

 2015/4/11 12:17Profile









 Re: Joel Richardson/Lysa's comments

I just looked at a little about Joel Richardson and 'when a jew rules the world'.

I find it strange that some Messianic believers (jewish christians) tend to create rifts where there are no rifts.

Replacement Theology isn't anti-Semitic. Sure some people that believe in replacement theology but...again, no Christian is perfect and these generalizations are detrimental to the body of Christ.

EDITED: The real enemy is hate. We are to love our enemies. We are to love fellow Christians. We are to love unbelievers. It doesn't matter what your position is on Replacement/Restorative or Pre/Mid/Post-Trib what matters is your heart towards people. Jesus taught this over and over again in various ways. If God forgave your numerous debts, why have you withheld forgiveness to someone that owed you? Jesus on the cross 'forgive them for they know not what they do'. This adamant and relentless love for others is what Christ taught. The moment that this (adament/relentless love for others) is lost is the moment someone walks out of the active rule/reign of God and His teachings. -End EDIT.

I think these kinds of debates are pointless/meaningless, the kinds of debates that the Apostle Paul warns us of.

These discussions don't produce the fruit of the Spirit.

Going to church, every once in a while someone will want bring up these debates, I tend to focus on 'who God is' 'whom we serve', it tends to put water on the debateful nature.

Or in other words, positions that don't relate to the character of a Christian are more about doctrine than the Word. This is a very dangerous place to be. Dangerous because we are to focus on Jesus and His Sermon on the Mount teachings, everything else is secondary/auxiliary/diverse.

I wonder, if we don't make room for believers differences in doctrine, if God won't make room for us in heaven (judge lest you be judged).

 2015/4/11 12:32









 Re:

Because the thread has been re-opened i would quickly like to answer Lysa's question, sorry for the late reply
"Did you read the book or listen to any of the authors interviews? I only ask b/c he agrees with you!!"
Yes i listened to one of his interviews and some of his teachings before i wrote my last post. Because i disagree with him on MANY points, he would therefore obviously also disagree with me.Just one of his comments; "instead of ISIS, it was the Christian church. "
Jesus Himself builds the true "Church " or Ekklesia (Mtth 16:18)! Many true believers suffered for the Gospel and should not be compared with ISIS !
But then we have a false system an false prophets etc.
If it is paramount for him that Jesus gets the highest honor then he would probably have chosen a different title for his book.

I will not go into further discussions here and would like to leave this thread with a few scriptures (NLT )
2 Peter 1v5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God’s promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge, 6and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient endurance, and patient endurance with godliness, 7and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone.

Blessings!
Markus

 2015/4/12 0:07
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
markuskiwi wrote:
Yes i listened to one of his interviews and some of his teachings before i wrote my last post. Because i disagree with him on MANY points, he would therefore obviously also disagree with me.Just one of his comments; "instead of ISIS, it was the Christian church. "
Jesus Himself builds the true "Church " or Ekklesia (Mtth 16:18)! Many true believers suffered for the Gospel and should not be compared with ISIS !
But then we have a false system an false prophets etc.
If it is paramount for him that Jesus gets the highest honor then he would probably have chosen a different title for his book.


I know that you've left the conversation and I'm writing (not debating) this because other's might feel the way you do.

For those who have not listened to any of Joel Richardson's interviews, I'm going to put his comment in perspective....

Quote:
Joel Richardson said in one interview:
And the danger of replacement theology is that once you hold that God himself has permanently dissolved the nation of Israel, that He Himself is punishing them for their disobedience; that it really becomes natural that you as a Christian would work to carry out the will of God. And unfortunately through much of church history Christians have, not all Christians, but a vast number of Christians have done just that.

I was just in Northern Iraq visiting with the refugees in the camps and looking at these people, they’ve left everything behind, they’ve seen their relatives massacred, they are living in the mud, and I’m looking at them and I’m saying 400 years ago these refugees were European Jews and Isis were the Christians that were massacring Jews across the region, they were confiscating their property, they were pushing them from one city to another. And that‘s a strong comparison, but it’s not an over exaggerated comparison. This happened for well over a 1000 years. Christians really need to be aware of how bad and how bloody it has been.


I do not believe that Joel is diminishing Believers being persecuted by Isis, he is trying to prove a point that 400 to 1000 years ago, 'the church' did the exact same thing to the Jews that are being done to them in Iraq.

Joel makes a valid point that this replacement belief came from the early church writers of John Chrysostom and Martin Luther and it was essentially that "because God hates the Jews, we Christians should also hate them and desire their blood."

I have not read the book yet but by listening to his interviews on youtube, I can see where he is coming from. Maybe not to you, but to me, Joel is warning Christians to be careful of where replacement theology will lead. History repeats itself and if we are not at the top of our game in our relationship with Christ, we will be on the bandwagon (again) to persecuting or even killing the Jews all in the name of God.

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2015/4/13 3:55Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5345
NC, USA

 Re:

Hi Lisa-

you wrote: "I do not believe that Joel is diminishing Believers being persecuted by Isis, he is trying to prove a point that 400 to 1000 years ago, followers of Christ did the exact same thing to the Jews that are being done to them in Iraq."

Followers of Christ were not killing Jews back then, so he is setting up a straw man. Organized religion may have been, but not followers of Christ. Followers of Christ don't murder people. There is no instruction in the scriptures whatsoever that disciples of Jesus Christ should murder Jews, or anyone else for that matter.


_________________
Todd

 2015/4/13 6:29Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:


According to me, he may have been setting up a straw man but he did not say 'followers of Christ,' I did. I should not have put words in his mouth. He did say, 'the church,' (little c, not capital c).

I changed it to 'the church' instead of followers of Christ.

God bless!!
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2015/4/13 10:03Profile





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