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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Dont believe the lie

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sonsigns
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 224
Brumley Missouri

 Re: Budgie

"WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS NOT SOME, NOT ONE, ALL
JESUS WILL NOT BE COMING THIS YEAR, YOU WILL SEE."

Are you saying that Jesus is coming back this year?


_________________
William Cato

 2015/4/3 23:00Profile









 Re:

False prophets aren't people who's doctrine are flawed. False prophets are people who lead people away from God/Yahweh/Jesus/etc.

Or in other words, pre-post-amill-postmill-etc no matter what your stance on WHEN He comes, the fact that they all agree that He is coming and that He, is Jesus the Christ, born of Mary/Joseph means each stance are leading people to God, not away, therefore they can't be false prophets.

Feel free to share your position and conviction but let's remember a pre-trib believer and a post-trib believer both believe in the SAME Jesus. And a belief in timing (pre/post) doesn't guarantee you to will come up with Him. It's only those that are ready for when He comes.

Let's keep our lamps full and remember we worship the same God.

 2015/4/4 1:03
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1403


 Re:

Hi LoveMeekHope,
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments.Although I dont agree with a Post Trib view I dont think at all that they are liars or that they are false Prophets because of their belief.
They are brothers and sisters in Christ.I think where part of the problem is that genuine "FALSE PROPHETS"(for the want of a better term) tend to preach a pre trib doctrine.That doesnt mean that the doctrine is valid or invalid.
It just means it muddies up the water in the sense that if the false prophet preaches pre trib it must be wrong kind of thing.

I do say however that our end time belief whatever it maybe has an effect on our church doctrinal view.If I believe in pre trib I may have a tendency to "once saved always saved" and if I have a post trib believer I may have a tendency towards believing "I can loose my salvation"
If I believe in post trib I may have a tendency towards believing in "presecution presecution doctrine" and if I have a pre trib view I may have a tendency to "no hardships at all God wants us to be millionaires doctrine"
Yours Staff

 2015/4/4 6:40Profile
sonsigns
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 224
Brumley Missouri

 Re: Staff

I agree. I believe in all of them.
I believe the word of God.

1. Rev. "Come up hither" I believe when John is called up at the end of chapter 3, it is the pre-trib rapture, the rapture of the Church.
2. Mid trib when the 144,00 Jewish evangelist are taken. I believe this is the last group rapture.
3. When the two witnesses are taken up in Chapter 11 and the saints of God follow Jesus back to the earth.

These three raptures are well documented in the book of Revelations. They are prophecy, but described.


_________________
William Cato

 2015/4/4 9:55Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

I am interested to know the origin of the "John, come up hither" equals "rapture of the church" teaching. It is one reason -- of quite a few -- I actually rejected the pre-trib position: no one could adequately expose from Scripture why these two things are equated.

Said in love, but loving skepticism.


_________________
Tim

 2015/4/4 15:16Profile
SteveHale
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 190
NSW Australia

 Re:

Corrie ten Boom on those preaching a pre-tribulation rapture -

“There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution . . . .


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Steve

 2015/4/4 16:46Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1403


 Re:

Hi StevenHale,
You know everytime their is a conversation on this subject some one brings up Corrie Ten Boom's beliefs on the tribulation.
Although she is a great christian example her belief's are experiential doctrine and based totally on what she was going through not on the bible.Her belief may however be correct although I dont hold to it but her view is based on her experiences not on the bible.
Many followers of God suffered Persecution which led to death in the bible and many did not,so to base our Tribulation view on what is going on around at a particular time in history is not proper exegesis.
For Instance Billy Graham preached successfully for decades, did not die physically for his faith in Christ or was not persecuted in the way Corrie Ten Boom was so can I say on the basis of Billy Grahams experiences that their will be no persecution or that we will not go through the great tribulation.NO I CANT and in the same way I cant base my view of the tribulation on Corrie Ten Booms Experiences and say we will go through the tribulation
The Corrie Ten Boom arguement is a red herring in the debate and sheds no light on the subject in my opinion,
Yours Staff

 2015/4/4 17:20Profile









 Re:

What did Jesus mean when he said: don't be deceived ? He tells us what he means :
Matthew 24 v 23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. 24"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.…
The word Jesus uses here has the meaning of leading us astray. If we would be lead astray and follow false Christs that would be serious.
When Jesus talked about the "tribulation " that doesn't mean that he meant the same as we do when we use that word.
The doctrine we have today is man made and is only a few hundred years old. If we have our doctrines write or wrong is not the meaning of the text.
Paul Washer points out in one of his Sermons that Paul wrote about the second coming to give us hope and to encourage us to continue our work faithfully and diligently.
"docs" is giving us a beautiful illustration here:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=54415&forum=35

I would also briefly like to make some comments about the second post: "When a Jew Rules the World".
This troubles me a bit. Yes Jesus the Messiah is the son of David etc. BUT afterwards "God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names " (Phil 2:9, NLT) He will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Lamb who was slain, etc. In His Kingdom there is neither Jew nor Greek, ... for we are all one in Christ Jesus. He should not be compared anymore with the old system, He deserves the highest honor!
"No one compares to You, my King
No one compare to You, my Lord
No one compare to You, my Friend"

Amen - and blessings to all !

 2015/4/5 0:14
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1403


 Re:

Hi
Again the arguement that a doctrine is only a few hundred years old
is not proper exegesis.it is t he word that has to be consulted.Pre tribbers will argue that its only a few hundred yrs old is only an old wives tale.Also the closer we get to the end the more will be revealed(in line with scripture)to advise and encourage us.
After all until Peters vision the body was unclear whether the gentiles were unclean or clean.Their will be aspects of Jesus coming that we will know more about than the infant church in judea,
yours staff

 2015/4/5 7:50Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
markuskiwi wrote:
I would also briefly like to make some comments about the second post: "When a Jew Rules the World".
This troubles me a bit. Yes Jesus the Messiah is the son of David etc. BUT afterwards "God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names " (Phil 2:9, NLT) He will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Lamb who was slain, etc. In His Kingdom there is neither Jew nor Greek, ... for we are all one in Christ Jesus. He should not be compared anymore with the old system, He deserves the highest honor!
"No one compares to You, my King
No one compare to You, my Lord
No one compare to You, my Friend"


Did you read the book or listen to any of the authors interviews? I only ask b/c he agrees with you!! Just asking. Although this is not necessarily what the book is about; the book is about the CHURCHES anti-Semitic views (prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews).

It could be about more but that is my simplistic take on it, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me!!

And also, I used to be an ardent post-tribber but it does seem that Jesus has already come "for" a few million Christians and they are just lying in wait for the Resurrection!! Only difference is I am alive for the moment awaiting His Resurrection!! thank you Jesus!!

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2015/4/5 9:19Profile





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