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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A Question about "God granting repentance"

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twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
i think it takes time to blend scriptural context in tho one big context that does not contradict ,,and that's all im trying to do is weed out what seems like a contradiction

i realist the direct context of Israel election from among the nation has nothing to do with the new covenant ,but paul has used it among personal elections like that of jacob and pharo to teach a new testament truth ,,the spiritual mean so to speak ,and he applied it to our salvation ,there is no geting around that by degrading that part of the letter to the romans to an erelevent old covenant bible study that paul was having with the saints at rome ......


eveyond seems to get hung up on the word world or all men ,forgeting the jews use hypabole all the time



Bro. Gary
We have to be careful in trying to eliminate what we perceive to be contradictions. Perhaps there is no contradiction to eliminate. I don't think we can attempt to blend context into one overall context. When we attempt either of these things we often stretch scripture to a place it was not intended to go.

You spoke of hyperbole in the context of scriptures that seem to indicate that grace and repentance is extended to all rather than to a group of those who are elect. If that be the case, how do we determine which scriptures are examples of Jewish hyperbole and which are not. Perhaps Romans 9-11 is hyperbole.

Do you see the point I am trying to make? I believe when you look at the phrase you quoted from the ISV in other translations, you can get a very different idea from the text. When you research the meaning of the words thus translated, you can see that the idea that certain people were created for wrath is a forced translation rather than a natural outflow of the scripture. It is just not plain enough to be dogmatic and is one of those verses that presupposition can greatly influence. This is especially true in light of the multitude of other verses which very plainly state that grace and repentance is offered to all who will come to Christ.

I stated that your proposition taken in the true context of Romans 9-11 would lead us to the conclusion that God created Israel for the express purpose of pouring out His wrath on Israel, I was trying to apply what you were saying to the literal context. I did not mean that this is what scripture teaches. If we are free to say that Romans 9-11 serves a broader context and can be applied to the gospel and salvation of all men, including Gentiles, then we must also say that it can serve the specific context in which it is written, and my statement is the logical conclusion of applying that interpretation to the literal context.

Hope that clears up what I was trying to say.


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Travis

 2015/3/6 8:20Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The point of what God is saying in Acts 11:18 is not a focus on if repentance is a gift, but rather the point being made here when read in context is that God is granting the gift of Salvation(Eph 2:8) to the gentiles not just the jews. It would be a good idea to start in chapter 10 or earlier for we read in chapter 10: 44-45

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Continue reading in chapter 11:1-18 and you will see the context carry over: Salvation not just for the Jewish nation, but also the gentiles. And from here on out the number of gentile believers begins to grow exponentially.
God chose to give us the ability to repent through the power of His Holy Spirit in the work of prevenient grace.

John 16:8
8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;



rneiman: It is such a blessing that repentance unto salvation has been offered to me as well as to Israel. It seems like this has been pressed upon my mind and heart more and more as time goes by. I deserved only hell and damnation. I was offered a gift of grace that I did not earn or deserve. What an amazing thing that God used Israel to bring forth Christ through Whom all nations of the earth, including me, are blessed with right relationship with God through faith.


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Travis

 2015/3/6 8:25Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Who is it that Paul knows is the only one to pray to that can give righteousness, understanding and wisdom of Christ,to sanctify us and make us know the Christ born again in us, by the redemption power of His own Son, by His resurrection from the dead to the eternal life Seed of God birthed in every believer?

Abraham' seeds unto the flesh, Gods' Seed in Abraham as to the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus our Lord the only Seed we have unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:16-23 Cease <pauo> not <ou> to give thanks <eucharisteo> for <huper> you <humon>, making <poieo> mention <mneia> of you <humon> in <epi> my <mou> prayers <proseuche>; That <hina> the God <theos> of our <hemon> Lord <kurios> Jesus <Iesous> Christ <Christos>, the Father <pater> of glory <doxa>, may give <didomi> unto you <humin> the spirit <pneuma> of wisdom <sophia> and <kai> revelation <apokalupsis> in <en> the knowledge <epignosis> of him <autos>: The eyes <ophthalmos> of your <humon> understanding <dianoia> being enlightened <photizo>; that <eis> ye <humas> may know <eido> what <tis> is <esti> the hope <elpis> of his <autos> calling <klesis>, and <kai> what <tis> the riches <ploutos> of the glory <doxa> of his <autos> inheritance <kleronomia> in <en> the saints <hagios>, And <kai> what <tis> is the exceeding <huperballo> greatness <megethos> of his <autos> power <dunamis> to <eis> us-ward <hemas> who <ho> believe <pisteuo>, according to <kata> the working <energeia> of his <autos> mighty <ischus> power <kratos>, Which <hos> he wrought <energeo> in <en> Christ <Christos>, when he raised <egeiro> him <autos> from <ek> the dead <nekros>, and <kai> set <kathizo> him at <en> his own <autos> right hand <dexios> in <en> the heavenly <epouranios> places, Far above <huperano> all <pas> principality <arche>, and <kai> power <exousia>, and <kai> might <dunamis>, and <kai> dominion <kuriotes>, and <kai> every <pas> name <onoma> that is named <onomazo>, not <ou> only <monon> in <en> this <touto> world <aion>, but <alla> also <kai> in <en> that which is to come <mello>: And <kai> hath put <hupotasso> all <pas> things under <hupo> his <autos> feet <pous>, and <kai> gave <didomi> him <autos> to be the head <kephale> over <huper> all <pas> things to the church <ekklesia>, Which <hostis> is <esti> his <autos> body <soma>, the fulness <pleroma> of him that filleth <pleroo> all <pas> in <en> all <pas>.

Study this and the seventy seven other direct implications of our in Christ position in scripture that God has placed us in Christ by He that is birthed in us, making us a new creation in Christ Jesus our Lord and Life in God. There are a total of 227 verses which pertain to us in Christ and He is us. That surely should give birth to only one repentance, one redemption and One Grace granted to each of us in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

When were we crucified with Christ now revealed for His elected and chosen saints in Christ Jesus, before the foundation of the world as scripture clearly speaks to,
"chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world".

Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Joh 17:24; Eph 1:4; 1Pe 1:20 In Him before the foundation of the World.

What work of redemption-repentance, sanctification-Grace is the only work that is valid in Christ Jesus?

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Who' ears do we have to hear and eyes to see?

In Christ 77+150=227: Phillip


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Phillip

 2015/3/6 16:18Profile





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