Hi AllStephen Fry was on a Programme Called "The Meaning Of Life"with Host Gay Byrne.Its On Youtube if you type in the above.The most important thing that came out of it is not nessacaryily the insulting words about God which is expected but the assault on freedom of speech.Basically he was saying that anyone who preached God should be stopped.This is so hyprocritical since he would not be able to speak his views except for the Judeo Christian heritage of Western Countries.Imagine Stephen saying these things in Saudi Arabia or Iraq or Syria.I am thankful to Revelation Tv for pointing these things out in a debate on one off their programmesYours Staff
quote: "Getting back to TMK's original point, where he stated that he 'understood the objection' made by Fry and 'Did not think there was a satisfactory human answer'. Well God has an answer. Read Job ch. 38 to 42 and you will see how God answered Job on this issue. Dr Brown gave quite a good summary of what God says there."I just read Job 38-42 again and it doesn't talk about problems like children with bone cancer or child sexual abuse. I know that is not what you meant, but I don't think the statements made in those passages apply to these types of issues.Here is the problem, as best as I can frame it:The pat answer to the problems like I noted above is Genesis 3, i.e. that Gen. 3 resulted in these terrors. That, and the idea that if you give man free will these horrors are possible. But you have to take one step deeper than Genesis 3- namely that God knew (or didn't He?) that man was going to sin and unleash these evils into the world. In other words, God created the *system* wherein these evil things can exist. If you truly believe that man might not have sinned, then that is another discussion. Job 38-42, to summarize greatly, says that God can do what He wants because He is God. I agree-- God can do what He wants. The problem that some atheists have trouble with (and quite frankly Christians as well) is "why would a good and loving God create a *system* wherein children are raped and racked by horrible diseases?" That is the question that is difficult to answer. A Christian who is mature in their faith can simply sit back and trust that God has done the right thing despite appearances. That is not an answer that is acceptable to a non-believer.
Job 38-42, to summarize greatly, says that God can do what He wants because He is God. I agree-- God can do what He wants. The problem that some atheists have trouble with (and quite frankly Christians as well) is "why would a good and loving God create a *system* wherein children are raped and racked by horrible diseases?" That is the question that is difficult to answer. A Christian who is mature in their faith can simply sit back and trust that God has done the right thing despite appearances. That is not an answer that is acceptable to a non-believer.
TMK, The Job 38-42 passage was meant for you, not an unbeliever. A committed 'unbeliever' by definition would not 'believe' or receive God's word. No amount of reasoning will convince someone who (as the bible says) willingly denies the truth. Does that mean that we should not speak forth God's word? No, we are called to do this as led of God, because it is the truth and some will hear, if others won't.I think your summary of Job 38-42 is quite simplistic. There is much more than God doing what He wants (of course He can), but it is more to show Job (and us) how small we are in comparison with Almighty God and the foolishness of thinking we can call God to account and be able to sit in judgement of God. You and I are less than a speck of dust in the whole universe. God who made the universe is outside of the universe, is greater, more powerful and infinitely bigger than the whole universe. "Who is this (man) that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" How can we possible be in a position to even begin to have enough knowledge to question God?The book of Job may not specifically mention every disease or injustice, but it IS about suffering and injustice. Reading the whole book of Job in one sitting is a beneficial thing to do if one wants to understand what is going on and the foolishness of men (Job's counsellors) to try and give reasons for suffering and injustice. Even Job gets himself into error as this goes on and bring accusations against God, which is why we have God's response in chs.38-42. What is the outcome after God speaks to Job? It is... "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." (Job 42:5).This is THE key scripture of this book and sums up the whole message we should get from it. Job may have previously 'heard of God' (knew about God we could say), but NOW he says he sees Him! Obviously this does not mean physically seeing God, but he has his spiritual eyes opened to who God really is and who he (Job) is in comparison and he repents in dust and ashes.This is what is needed, a revelation of who God really is! This will cause men to repent and believe the gospel, not clever answers to every question men may have. It is incumbent upon us who know God to preach the truth of God as revealed in His word in such a way that He is seen in all his glory, majesty, greatness and power. Then men will fall on their faces and repent before Him. Oh, magnify the LORD with me, And let us exalt His name together.