SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : What God Might Say to Atheist Stephen Fry- Dr. Michael L. Brown

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 )
PosterThread
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1432


 Re:

Hi All
Stephen Fry was on a Programme Called "The Meaning Of Life"
with Host Gay Byrne.Its On Youtube if you type in the above.
The most important thing that came out of it is not nessacaryily the insulting words about God which is expected but the assault on freedom of speech.Basically he was saying that anyone who preached God should be stopped.This is so hyprocritical since he would not be able to speak his views except for the Judeo Christian heritage of Western Countries.
Imagine Stephen saying these things in Saudi Arabia or Iraq or Syria.I am thankful to Revelation Tv for pointing these things out in a debate on one off their programmes
Yours Staff

 2015/2/14 18:53Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5405
NC, USA

 Re:

quote: "Getting back to TMK's original point, where he stated that he 'understood the objection' made by Fry and 'Did not think there was a satisfactory human answer'. Well God has an answer. Read Job ch. 38 to 42 and you will see how God answered Job on this issue. Dr Brown gave quite a good summary of what God says there."

I just read Job 38-42 again and it doesn't talk about problems like children with bone cancer or child sexual abuse.

I know that is not what you meant, but I don't think the statements made in those passages apply to these types of issues.

Here is the problem, as best as I can frame it:

The pat answer to the problems like I noted above is Genesis 3, i.e. that Gen. 3 resulted in these terrors. That, and the idea that if you give man free will these horrors are possible.

But you have to take one step deeper than Genesis 3- namely that God knew (or didn't He?) that man was going to sin and unleash these evils into the world. In other words, God created the *system* wherein these evil things can exist. If you truly believe that man might not have sinned, then that is another discussion.

Job 38-42, to summarize greatly, says that God can do what He wants because He is God. I agree-- God can do what He wants. The problem that some atheists have trouble with (and quite frankly Christians as well) is "why would a good and loving God create a *system* wherein children are raped and racked by horrible diseases?"

That is the question that is difficult to answer. A Christian who is mature in their faith can simply sit back and trust that God has done the right thing despite appearances. That is not an answer that is acceptable to a non-believer.


_________________
Todd

 2015/2/16 18:14Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Job 38-42, to summarize greatly, says that God can do what He wants because He is God. I agree-- God can do what He wants. The problem that some atheists have trouble with (and quite frankly Christians as well) is "why would a good and loving God create a *system* wherein children are raped and racked by horrible diseases?"

That is the question that is difficult to answer. A Christian who is mature in their faith can simply sit back and trust that God has done the right thing despite appearances. That is not an answer that is acceptable to a non-believer.



Good point. That's why when it comes to preaching the gospel to the lost I believe we must trust in the power of the Holy Spirit to open darkened hearts and perform the work of regeneration that no amount of human argumentation can produce. There is definitely a place for giving reasons for the hope that lies within us but we must ultimately trust God to do His work of convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment, and of drawing those to Himself whom he has appointed to eternal life, as we read in Acts 13:48, "as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

Christians do indeed sometimes struggle with certain hard truths revealed in God's Word. I've certainly had my share of struggles and doubts at times. But eventually the Lord has always reassured me that I can, and must trust Him even when I don't understand it all. He gets us through those tough moments as we seek Him with our whole hearts.

In the final analysis I believe there is too much evidence of the goodness, mercy, patience and love of God as well as His righteousness and justice; strong evidence which points to Him being a God who can be trusted to always do the right thing.


_________________
Oracio

 2015/2/17 1:41Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

TMK, The Job 38-42 passage was meant for you, not an unbeliever. A committed 'unbeliever' by definition would not 'believe' or receive God's word. No amount of reasoning will convince someone who (as the bible says) willingly denies the truth. Does that mean that we should not speak forth God's word? No, we are called to do this as led of God, because it is the truth and some will hear, if others won't.

I think your summary of Job 38-42 is quite simplistic. There is much more than God doing what He wants (of course He can), but it is more to show Job (and us) how small we are in comparison with Almighty God and the foolishness of thinking we can call God to account and be able to sit in judgement of God. You and I are less than a speck of dust in the whole universe. God who made the universe is outside of the universe, is greater, more powerful and infinitely bigger than the whole universe. "Who is this (man) that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" How can we possible be in a position to even begin to have enough knowledge to question God?

The book of Job may not specifically mention every disease or injustice, but it IS about suffering and injustice. Reading the whole book of Job in one sitting is a beneficial thing to do if one wants to understand what is going on and the foolishness of men (Job's counsellors) to try and give reasons for suffering and injustice. Even Job gets himself into error as this goes on and bring accusations against God, which is why we have God's response in chs.38-42. What is the outcome after God speaks to Job? It is...

"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." (Job 42:5).

This is THE key scripture of this book and sums up the whole message we should get from it. Job may have previously 'heard of God' (knew about God we could say), but NOW he says he sees Him! Obviously this does not mean physically seeing God, but he has his spiritual eyes opened to who God really is and who he (Job) is in comparison and he repents in dust and ashes.

This is what is needed, a revelation of who God really is! This will cause men to repent and believe the gospel, not clever answers to every question men may have. It is incumbent upon us who know God to preach the truth of God as revealed in His word in such a way that He is seen in all his glory, majesty, greatness and power. Then men will fall on their faces and repent before Him.

Oh, magnify the LORD with me,
And let us exalt His name together.


_________________
Dave

 2015/2/17 4:47Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy