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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5405
NC, USA

 What God Might Say to Atheist Stephen Fry- Dr. Michael L. Brown

From the article:

"Outspoken British atheist Stephen Fry was recently asked what he would say to God if such a being really existed and he encountered him/her/it after death. His reply was passionate, eloquent, defiant and irreverent. I wonder what God might say to him.

How would the Creator respond to being characterized by a mere mortal as "utterly evil ... capricious, mean-minded, stupid" and "monstrous," among other choice descriptions?

The first error made by Fry was assuming he would be able to speak at all in God's presence, having no idea that he would suddenly encounter perfect purity, unimaginable love, absolute goodness, untainted justice, blazing truth and unadulterated light.

In a moment, he would be overwhelmed by his own sinfulness—not so much as an atheist but as a human being—his selfishness, his arrogance, his carnality and his hypocrisy.

Rather than rebuking God, he would be reproaching himself, wailing aloud, "I am so very, very sorry for who I am and what I have done. Could you possibly have mercy on a wretch like me?"

But what of the substance of his remarks? What if he could have his say with God? How would the Lord respond?

Fry was outraged that an allegedly loving and compassionate God could allow such terrible suffering among His creation, stating that he would say to the Deity, "bone cancer in children, what's that about? How dare you. How dare you create a world where there is such misery that's not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly, utterly evil."

God might say to him, "I applaud you for your moral indignation. In fact, you got it straight from Me. If you were simply the result of a freak, unguided evolutionary accident and your brain waves were just the result of neurons firing, you would have no more moral indignation than a zebra being eaten alive by lions or a fly being devoured by a spider.

"The very fact that you care and that you know that such suffering is not right is a reflection of my image in you. But in reality, you don't know the half of it. I am in constant pain because of the suffering of my creation. The cries and agony are in my ears day and night."

The rest of the article is here:

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/48173-what-god-might-say-to-atheist-stephen-fry


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Todd

 2015/2/12 17:01Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5405
NC, USA

 Re: What God Might Say to Atheist Stephen Fry- Dr. Michael L. Brown

Quote from article: "Fry was outraged that an allegedly loving and compassionate God could allow such terrible suffering among His creation, stating that he would say to the Deity, "bone cancer in children, what's that about? How dare you. How dare you create a world where there is such misery that's not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly, utterly evil."

Can anyone here understand this objection raised by Fry, or perhaps even sympathize with it?

I can understand the objection, and while I don't agree with his conclusion, I do understand the objection. And it does not seem to me there is a truly satisfactory response, at least not a satisfactory human response.


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Todd

 2015/2/12 17:06Profile









 Re:

This is kind of the last straw for me and Dr. Brown.

I admired the guy. I listened to a lot of his messages when Brownsville happened. The fire school had a lot of great fruit from it.

But he has been focusing on external issues and/or political issues. As if the gospel is a political fight, it's not.

Jesus didn't say 'rome is doing this bad and that bad, follow me'. He demonstrated God to people and the willingness for God to save, heal, and forgive.

Fry is wrong. Sure. But Dr. Brown's response is simply not of God. Not of the gospel. Not from the heart of God.

I know people will try to assert the letter of the law. Or the nature of God. Sure. But my frustrating is this idea of 'I got it right, follow me.' That pride isn't the gospel. It's 'Jesus has it right, follow Him'.

People should focus on Jesus, not this that and the other. This. is. not. Jesus. Therefore, Dr. Brown is done for me. That's my opinion, like many others, I'm sure there will be disagreement with me. But for me, this isn't up for discussion.

I will be praying for Dr. Brown, that he may decrease, because Christ should increase. God forbid I ever enter into this pride of the gospel, like even the Jews fell into, but may a righteous man be heard, to make me decrease should I ever fall into this trap of the enemy.

 2015/2/12 22:53
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

When I first heard that Stephen Fry had made these comments about the creator God, coming very closely on the back of his very public 'marriage' to his gay partner (whom he perversely calls his 'husband'. Does that mean he calls himself the 'wife'?), it was obvious that he was just trying to justify his sinful lifestyle by denying the moral authority of God. This is a normal response from those who want to live in deliberate rebellion to their God given conscience.

The bible is clear that all men know deep down the truth that there is a God and that they are in sin, but they choose to deny the truth and sear their conscience, the result being that God hands them over to their uncleanness.

As to the question should Dr Brown comment publically on a pubic diatribe of the creator, yes he should. If Christians cannot speak the truth about God and the fate of those who oppose God, then who can? Is it self promoting of prideful to declare the truth of scripture and the words of Jesus? I think not. If it were Dr Brown's own philosophy and ideas then you could level this criticism, but not if he is declaring the truth of God as revealed in scripture.

How does one decrease and Christ increase? How does one magnify God? Surely when we speak His words and declare who He is and what He says we are magnifying the Lord! Jesus glorified His Father, how? He only spoke and did what His Father said and did.

In these days that we live we need strong voices again who will declare the righteousness of God, that men may come to repentance and be saved from their sins. If we say nothing, then sin will increase,darkness will continue to envelop all people and men's consciences will remain in the dungeons of ignorance.


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Dave

 2015/2/13 6:24Profile









 Re:

John 1 is clear. Fry doesn't comprehend the light.

I think it's tasteless and un-Christ-like to 'speak the truth of God's word' as you say.

You were once blind, deaf, and dumb (and so was Dr. Brown and so was I). Proclaiming who God is doesn't change who God is, nor does it heal the eyes of the blind, deaf, and dumb in most cases.

It's my perspective that a lot of this 'defending God' comes from an insecure faith.

We aren't to wield the sword of truth against unbelievers. We are to we to it against every thought that comes against Christ, this is an internal battle, not physical battle against the thoughts of the public.

Jesus didn't campaign. Jesus wasn't a PR guy.

Who cares what Fry says? Honestly. Who? Why? It's not the voice of Jesus. So, just move on. Just because people are being 'led astray' that doesn't mean we are to 'point by point' make the case for Christ.

Jesus is the Son of God, with an abundant amount of compassion and holiness. Whether the person acknowledges it or not. "Every knee will bow". Our Christian faith nor is the gospel out to 'prove' anything to the world. It's to be a light, to heal, to mend, etc. This isn't healing. This isn't mending. This isn't even the antidote.

The moment when we speak the truth of God without the heart of God, is the moment that the message is hijacked by the enemy. When we care more about public opinion ('we have the right doctrine' or the 'right god') is the moment the gospel is no longer the gospel. We are to point people to Christ, as seen in the gospel. I see no pointing.

Read the gospel. Jesus wouldn't do what Dr. Brown did, nor in the manner that he did. If you see God that way, I urge you to pray the gospel. Meditate on it. Jesus is clear on how He demonstrated God to the sinful world.

For God so loved the world He gave. Not that He argued. Not that He fought public opinion.

P.S. This is frustrating to me. Hence my long winded response. I know I'm not perfect and I may come off as offensive. But the media of Christianity is becoming darker by the day. I feel I need to speak up because God is doing something and I don't want the 'older brother' syndrome within the Church.

 2015/2/13 11:28
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Re:

The conclusion of Brown's article:

"The good news is that Stephen Fry is yet living and breathing, and where there's life, there's hope.

Let's lift up a prayer on his behalf."

I like this, don't you? It portrays a person who has not given up on Fry. Yet I wonder if God didn't - read Romans 1, but that is his prerogative, not mine to determine.


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Sandra Miller

 2015/2/13 11:59Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

LMH, Maybe your frustration is that a lot of us cannot agree with your selective view of God and Christ. Why would you be offended at Dr Brown or anyone else for saying what he said. He was not being personally offensive for the sake of it. He was just telling it as it is. You're mistaken, in that this was a public opinion of God from Fry and therefore a public response is appropriate. I'm sure if Dr Brown was talking to Fry face to face he would speak in a different way.

Your position seems to be that the only thing we should say to unbelievers is 'God Loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life'! The fact they don't know who this God is or what his righteousness demands seems of no consequence to you.

Dr Brown we know, but we don't know LMH, name, male or female or if you live in America or in the Amazon jungle. Seems strange that you want to be heard, but want be anonomous at the same time.


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Dave

 2015/2/13 15:21Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Ray Comfort also responded to Mr. Fry's comments and I think Ray's response was along similar lines as Michael Brown's. Here's Ray's response:

"When Homosexual actor and author, Stephen Fry was recently asked what he would say to God if he faces Him after death, his answer was, “I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about? How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."

Let's help this atheist bolster his case against God, by broadening his argument a little. It's not only bone cancer that kills children. They also get brain, blood, and lung cancer, suffocate from asthma, die from Ebola and of heart problems. Millions of children have also died of pneumonia, diarrhea, hepatitis, tuberculosis, and a thousand and one other diseases.

Then there are the hundreds of thousands of children who have been killed in earthquakes, floods, famines, tornadoes, tsunamis, and hurricanes.

God has also let children become sex slaves and be used in pornography, have bombs strapped to them by terrorists, and allowed millions to be murdered in Nazi Germany and in hundreds of other wars.

Then there are those children who have died through Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, and the millions who are slaughtered each year through legalized abortion.

Mr. Atheist, if you really want an explanation as to why there is so much disease, endless suffering, injustice, and death, read your Bible. It will tell you that God did not create the world as it is, and it is us who are guilty of sin.

But, you're an atheist, so you don't believe God's Word or heed His sober warning of Hell. So you are stuck with what the Bible calls a willful ignorance.

One other thing. The Scriptures will also show you that there's no greater delusion of grandeur nor any greater arrogance, than for sinful man to stand in moral judgment over Almighty God. But if you remain as you are, you will find that out when you face Him."


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Oracio

 2015/2/13 15:54Profile









 Re:

Scriptures are fairly clear. I don't see a need to prove my points.

God will bring an end to the Church's pride. I believe He is more jealous about our heart's condition than Mr. Fry's.

Ah the sinner, let's judge him. lol. Ah the sinner, let's speak ill of him. Ah the sinner, let's throw some more mud on him, then...and only then he will make himself clean. lol. This is bad fruit from much of the holiness talk.

The gospel isn't an academic or philosophical argument. It's the person and work of Jesus Christ. Our actions speak louder than our words. All I hear in most of this, is words. Not wholesome words. Not words of life. But instead words of death and condemnation.

That's fine. If you throw mud on me, and tell me 'there is good news, you can get cleaned off'. My first reaction would be, "Yeah. To never come around you."

I think Dr. Brown's posture in this isn't the heart of God. Too many here have this 'lens of holiness' as if Christ would act that way. Well, we have the gospel. We have the actual, physical responses Jesus did in various similar situations. Let those words speak, not mine, not Dr. Brown. It's very evident as to the heart of God, through the lens of Jesus within the gospel.

 2015/2/13 16:27
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

LMH, For someone who said " Defending God is a sign of an insecure faith", you seem to be exerting a lot of energy defending your view of God!

I'm wondering LMH, are you someone we know by another name who left, but had another account name that has now become active? I could be wrong, but something seems a bit odd here, particularly when we see the sign up date and most of your posts being only recent. Added to that the anonymity. I may be wrong and if so appologise and it really dose not matter, just how it appears to me though.


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Dave

 2015/2/13 18:05Profile





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