I don't believe you MUST speak in tounges to know that you have received the Holy Spirit. I do speak in tounges, but ONLY by the inclination of the Spirit of God. Throughout scripture it says 'as the Spirit gave utterance'. Smith Wigglesworth thought this strongly. (but he also said YOU HAD TO SPEAK IN tounges to have the evidance of knowing you have the Holy Spirit). I prayed over this one guy, and just bam, he got the Spirit of God and he was filled with God, but no tounges.
| 2005/7/4 9:39|
i have found that tounges was not always the comunication of the gospel to an ethnic group, you naturally have no concept of, [b]but also a sheer spiritual connection with heaven that the enemy could never interrupt. it it a weapon against his dark forces[/b], and a language in itself, and occasionally God has given me a gist of what i just said being sheer praises to him.
This (in bold) is true. Also, an aid to prayer in extreme circumstances, which is used by God to strengthen and reinforce His presence in it.
| 2005/7/4 10:14|
| Re: want to meet someone who can speak in tongue|
Hi,I live in Worthing and you are more than welcome to come and visit we have some thai and asian folk in our church to
jubilee community church, we meet in worthing high school,South farm rd on sundays 10.00 am or you can reply to me and we can meet up :-)
| 2005/7/4 10:17||Profile|
Smith Wigglesworth thought this strongly. (but he also said YOU HAD TO SPEAK IN tounges to have the evidance of knowing you have the Holy Spirit). I prayed over this one guy, and just bam, he got the Spirit of God and he was filled with God, but no tounges.
I think the Christian Body has lost understandding about the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, as promised by Christ to His Church. We, just like Paul on the road to Damascus, must become believers before we are baptized into the power of the Holy Ghost. On the Damacus Road Paul became a believer when he addressed Christ as LORD. 3 days later a Disciple that is only mentioned once in the Bible is summoned to lay hands on him (Paul) and he is then Baptized into the Holy Ghost, thus receiving power to witness to the lost and receive his other Spiritual Gifts.
Did the person that you mention above, Yeshua, receive the gift of witnessing to the lost. The boldeness that is provided by the Holy Ghost to witness to those that He sends to the believer? Does he have any other spiritual gifts? I truly think that tongues is only a sign of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Christian believer is actually saved and on his way to heaven without this Baptism (of the Holy Ghost), it is just that the Baptism empowers the believer to be about Christ's command of witnessing to the lost.
| 2005/7/4 13:55|
| Re: concerning baptism|
Quote: Anyone? Might this be called the gift of evangelism?
it is just that the Baptism empowers the believer to be about Christ's command of witnessing to the lost.
| 2005/7/4 22:26|
I was responding to the following:
"The A/G holds that tongues is the initial physical evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Ghost. All ministers must have received this experience."
Any denial of one called to preach because they cannot speak in tongues is a mistake. It defeats the purpose that Paul was trying to make to the Corinthians. None of the New Testament requirements for any church position mentioned in Scripture show tongues as a prerequisite.
So while I have not seen a legitimate experience of tongues, I am neither promoting nor discrediting the experience. What I am saying is there is sometimes an un-Biblical emphasis given to the gift of tongues.
1 Cor 14:5-"for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues."
What I'm trying to say is this: how could someone read the above verse, and then tell someone that doesn't speak in tongues that they can't preach?
| 2005/7/5 2:03||Profile|
I say this with all love that my brothers would win souls to Christ: evangelism is not a gift, it is a clear command of Scripture that says "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."
While God may grant the ability of an individual to speak clearer and more earnestly to sinners, every Christian should be telling men that they should repent.
Hopefully all already know this, but some may not have heard it. I have heard on more than one occasion that some in the church think because God has given them a gift, that they are not supposed to attempt to lead people to Christ. They think that evangelism is a rung that they may reach one day.
Paul said he was free from the blood of all men because he witnessed or preached probably every chance he got. We will account to God for not preaching the gospel. I say this not to offend, but to bring to reality that the preaching of the gospel was the main work of Paul:
"I came not to baptize but to preach the gospel."
Getting people saved is the main burden of the Father:
"He is not willing that any should persish, but that all should come to repentance"
It's what Jesus died for:
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"
I knowingly run from witnessing more than I do it, but I have done it some. If you're not brave enough to witness, hand out tracts. There is no more important work than spreading the message of repentance and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
| 2005/7/5 2:29||Profile|
I didn't see your response to me until this morning so that's why the delay.
Like I said, I'm not a Pentacostal so I don't want to pretend I'm an adequate apologist for their doctrine. But I do want to try and clarify a little for you.
I'm quite sure that Pentecostal churches require that some of their leaders speak in tongues because of that doctrine they hold which you reference. That is, that speaking in tongues is [i]the[/i] initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They have likely set up these rules because they don't want people leading the church who aren't baptized in the Holy Spirit. And that's understandable, right?
"So while I have not seen a legitimate experience of tongues, I am neither promoting nor discrediting the experience."
Good for you. I truly appreciate such humility.
"What I am saying is there is sometimes an un-Biblical emphasis given to the gift of tongues."
Agreed. Yet I have seen that this wonderful gift of the Holy Spirit is often dishonored and misunderstood. I think it's understandable when things might get overemphasized for a short season when they've been completely neglected for a long season, as with tongues.
While Paul may not have written a lot on tongues, what he did write jumps off the page. I mean, the impression his statements on tongues makes are powerful, at least to me. The fact that Paul wished that [i]everyone[/i] spoke in tongues and that he also claimed to do it more than anyone else startles me. Doesn't it you?
So what I'm getting at is that while it's not emphasized in quantity, it's emphasized in quality, if you will.
"'1 Cor 14:5-"for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues.'
What I'm trying to say is this: how could someone read the above verse, and then tell someone that doesn't speak in tongues that they can't preach?"
I think it's because they see tongues as the [i]initial[/i] evidence of the baptism. It's just the beginning. But it's a minimum requirement. I'm not sure, but they might say that prophecy is a higher level evidence of the baptism, or at least that's the idea. But they just want to make sure that all of their ministers are [i]at least[/i] baptized in the Holy Spirit which they believe is evidenced by speaking in tongues.
| 2005/7/9 12:19||Profile|
So the baptism in the Holy Ghost goes always with the speaking of tongues?
I myself have asked for this but not received it yet.
Yesterday I listened to a sermon 'Hindrances to holiness', I thought this was about what would stop you from leading a holy life. But infact the sermon was about why one would not get baptised with the Holy Spirit. I thought this was confusing, the speaker implied that the listener was living a life of defeat and you felt a failure. I think its weird, sure I would like to speak in tongues as it would build yourself up. But I don't feel like I'm a failure, I feel like that I am led by God.
Perhaps I'm not ready for it, I will just continue to seek God till He knows I'm ready then.
| 2005/7/9 16:32||Profile|
I posted this in the other thread but thought I would here too.
I've heard accounts of demonic manifestations of "tougues." Just because someone speaks in tougues doesn't mean they are filled with the Holy Ghost. I do belive in the baptism of the Holy Ghost pentecostally. In other words that when you are baptised in the Holy Ghost you will speak in tougues. That doctrine has been discussed I'm sure in other threads so lets not get into it here. My only hurt about what the pentcostals have done to this doctrine is that I belive there are alot of "shallow baptisms" if that makes sense. What I mean by that is alot of people have spoke in tougues but have not recived that power as a true Baptism of the Holy Ghost would bring. Many in the pentecostal realm have seeked speaking in tougues rather than the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
| 2005/7/9 17:21||Profile|