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 Re:

I have had great reluctance to post some of the devotionals written by Gary Wilkerson on their email list of David Wilkerson's devotions. Many things I agree with but overall there was a sense of the modern grace gospel message that has no fear of God, holiness of God, repentance of sin, etc.

Essentially the modern grace teachers are saying that 1950 years of Church history was wrong, legalistic and command keeping and not grace living, etc.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/10/26 8:01Profile
yuehan
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Quote:
I have had great reluctance to post some of the devotionals written by Gary Wilkerson on their email list of David Wilkerson's devotions. Many things I agree with but overall there was a sense of the modern grace gospel message that has no fear of God, holiness of God, repentance of sin, etc.

Essentially the modern grace teachers are saying that 1950 years of Church history was wrong, legalistic and command keeping and not grace living, etc.


Dear Greg,

Initially I had similar reservations too about Gary Wilkerson's devotionals. Later I realized that it was my understanding of the New Covenant that was defective. And once I began to see the truth of the gospel and experience its reality, my life changed and I am determined to never go back.

Gary Wilkerson's preaching on grace and sanctification by faith are not new doctrines. Many speakers on this website have expounded on them, including Hudson Taylor, Andrew Murray, Watchman Nee... It's part of the
Reformed tradition, and goes all the way back to Luther and Calvin. Of course, you can trace this further back to the Bible, and that's the only thing which matters.

This excerpt from the Belgic Confession (1561) captures the truth beautifully:

"We believe that this true faith, being wrought in man by the hearing of the Word of God and the operation of the Holy Spirit, regenerates him and makes him a new man, causing him to live a new life, and freeing him from the bondage of sin. Therefore it is so far from being true that his justifying faith makes men remiss in a pious and holy life, that on the contrary without it they would never do anything out of love to God, but only out of self-love or fear of damnation. Therefore, it is impossible that this holy faith can be unfruitful in man; for we do not speak of a vain faith, but of such a faith which is called in Scripture a 'faith working through love', which excites man to the practice of those works which God has commanded in His Word... We would always be in doubt, tossed to and fro without any certainty, and our poor consciences would be continually vexed if they relied not on the merits of the suffering and death of our Saviour."

 2014/10/26 9:50Profile
Sidewalk
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In Gary Wilkerson's carefully polished article he references Luke and tells of the many thousands of people who had come to Jesus to be healed of their diseases and to be set free from demons. He emphasizes how each and every one was healed because Jesus brought grace instead of law.

The reality of the event was probably not quite so rosy. Not to argue with Luke, and I was not there- but other passages indicate that not all were healed everywhere Jesus went. The edge of the pool at Bethesda was teeming with sick people, but apparently only one came into Jesus' grace there, the man with the miserable 38 years.

In Mark 6:5 it is noted that the unbelief among his local countrymen prevented Him from doing great works, He was only able to lay a healing hand on very few. Jesus depended on finding faith to work with the grace He had to offer! He often concluded a work of healing with these words, "Your faith has made you well."

I was considering a snide remark that maybe Gary Wilkerson is listening to too much Joel Osteen, but I am not going to go there.


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Tom Cameron

 2014/10/26 11:17Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Initially I had similar reservations too about Gary Wilkerson's devotionals. Later I realized that it was my understanding of the New Covenant that was defective. And once I began to see the truth of the gospel and experience its reality, my life changed and I am determined to never go back.



Amen, the truth of the New Covenant is the most liberating and sin-destroying truth of the Bible. Yes, some have run with it in the wrong direction, into licentiousness, but a true understanding of this truth sets men free.

The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
(Psalms 25:14)

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2014/10/26 11:40Profile
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Amen, the truth of the New Covenant is the most liberating and sin-destroying truth of the Bible. Yes, some have run with it in the wrong direction, into licentiousness, but a true understanding of this truth sets men free.


I used to think that too much preaching on grace would lead to antinomianism, and that a good message was one which balanced law and grace. It's as if you had antinomianism at one end of the spectrum, and legalism at the other - and a good preacher would be able to achieve a delicate balance between the two.

However, the truth is that - "Antinomianism and Legalism are not opposites of one another; they are both opposites of the grace of God in the gospel." (Sinclair Ferguson)

So the truth of God is not between both ends, but it transcends the entire spectrum! That's not something which human minds can conceive, and thus requires revelation from God.

Indeed, it is only through revelation that the gospel of God can ever be known - "the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Colossians 1:26-27)

 2014/10/26 12:21Profile
Oracio
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 Re:

Quote:
I do have a real problem with your belief on this subject and even disagree with it completely and even vehemently disagree that this is "non-essential" issue among Christians.

So if I get this the meaning of this teaching here is what I would have to say if asked to talk in front of a church to proclaim the Good news of the gospel.

------------------------------------------------------------

“I am here to tell you the good news of the gospel and that Christ died for you, opps – wait, I forgot that Christ only died for some of you and if you are not one of God’s elect you are doomed forever to hell. You have been excluded and there is absolutely nothing that you can ever do anything about it.”

“None of the promises of God apply to you and since Christ did not die for you, you can not believe or repent. You will continue to sin daily without any hope whatsoever and then spend eternity in hell.”
---------------------------------------------------------

This is NOT the gospel and if you teach this, someone could get the idea that they are not one of the “elect” and as a result do nothing because they feel rejected by God Himself.

It is impossible to be saved if you if you do believe that Christ died for you. If you are excluded then there is no hope at all!


tuc, I am sorry to hear that you believe "Calvinistic" preachers don't preach the biblical gospel and that you see this as an essential over which to divide. There are some Christians that flat out condemn Calvinism as if it is completely heretical. To condemn it in that manner you have to condemn the gospel preaching of men like Whitefield and Spurgeon as being completely unbiblical or heretical. Yet history shows that God has indeed set his seal on such preaching from men of that theological persuasion.

It also seems that there is a misunderstanding on the gospel message that has been and is still preached by Calvinistic preachers. We do not preach that sinners must passively wait for God to save them. That is "Hyper-Calvinism" and is heretical. Rather, we preach that God calls all men everywhere to repent now, today, for tomorrow is promised to no man. We preach that man is responsible for his sinfulness and continual rebellion against God. We preach Christ crucified and risen to save sinners; whoever will call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Whosoever will may come; Christ bids all to come to Him and promises He will by no means cast out anyone who comes to Him in humble repentance and faith. The gospel call and invitation is given to all without respect of persons.

We understand that God chooses to save His elect through the preaching of the biblical gospel. Our duty as witnesses of Christ is to preach the gospel and plead with sinners to repent and trust Christ now. God takes that preached message and uses it with the unction of His Spirit to bring conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment, and to bring sinners to saving repentance and faith and regeneration.

Even if one believes in man's free will when it comes to salvation, you still must believe in predestination because that is clearly taught in the Word. You still must accept the fact that God already knows who will and will not be saved in the end, because He is omniscient. So even if you are Arminian in your theology there is still this element of God's sovereignty (His omniscience) which you must acknowledge.

So we don't know who is or isn't predestined for salvation as we preach the gospel. That's not for us to know when preaching the gospel. Again, our duty us to faithfully scatter the seed and leave the results with God. This knowledge frees us from trying to be manipulative or watering down the gospel, and from being too discouraged. We can go out spreading the gospel with full assurance that God's Word will not return to Him void but will accomplish everything He designs for it to accomplish, whether it is a savor of life unto life for some, or of death unto death for others. In both cases God will be glorified.


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Oracio

 2014/10/26 14:03Profile
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 Re:

Oracio! You express yourself well, and I find it interesting that your sense of the urgent call to sinners to repent is unhindered by the Calvinist lean of your theology! Your love for the kingdom and those who will fill it is evident in the grace with which you write.

Better to be a Calvinist with a passion for the lost than an Arminian sitting in hopeless gloom!

We know that some men hear the gospel and respond, and many hear it and do not. Jesus' parable of the sower and the seeds lays that out very well. But whether Calvinist or Arminian, we are to sow good seed! We do not have any part of the final accounting this side of the fulness of the kingdom.


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Tom Cameron

 2014/10/26 14:21Profile
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 Re:

I have never read any of the works of Gary Wilkerson. David Wilkerson was one of my heros. But never attracted to read any of this man's work. Read this article and found that it is deception carefully wrapped up with some truth. So from outword it looks like great truth but inside it is deception.

Quote:

And so Christ urges us, “Why don’t you take that scale of your own making and lay it down at the foot of the cross? I NEVER CALLED you to APPEASE me. I have called you to do one thing: receive my blessing of grace.



Probably he has to tell this saying of Jesus to Paul who writes in 2 Cor 5:9 & 10 that we (saved Church going people) should have an attitude to PLEASE God because we have to appear before his judgment seat.
Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. For we all should appear before the judgment seat of Christ,...

Quote:

You have nothing to bring to him because he has already spoken his blessing over you. Receive it — and enter every good work he has prepared for you by grace



If I have nothing to bring or offer to God then why did Jesus say give to God what God deserved, which is our Body that is created in the image of him. Why did Paul is asking us to submit our body as a pure sacrifice which is worship (Romans 12:2).

He is taking the people who were healed when they touched Jesus in Luke 6:19 as an example of Grace. Momentary Healing is different from Salvation. I believe most of them who touched Jesus that day would have ended up in Hell though they were physically healed. Only those who repented and endured till the end, on hearing the apostles would be saved. The physical healing is different from spiritual healing. Take the case of 10 Leppers only the Samaritan turned to follow Jesus and thank him. Others went on their way. It is clear that the base of this article it self is ERROR in understanding the scripture.

It is true that we should not press on to perfection ourselves by our strength to appease God, but we should let God work in us by submitting our Body to him, else we would be resisting his grace. Workout what God's grace is working inside us.


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Sreeram

 2014/10/27 7:31Profile
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Saints,

I do not see this as a calvinism - non-calvinism issue, and we would encourage saints not to argue or debate along those lines. But rather the grace message that Gary W. is giving is a doing nothing and allowing godliness to flow through a life compared to one doing things for the Lord to please Him. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle that we are commanded in the scriptures to please the Lord and do things, but this comes firstly out of appreciate and gratitude for the death of Christ on our behalf and secondly the indwelling Spirit empowering us to live godly lives.

The deception comes when all effort is looked at as wrong. I would say any effort to justify one'self is wrong but to desire to live godly and follow Christ is not especially when fueled from thankfulness for the cross of Christ and us not being our own anymore. There are also times when we fully give us and say to the Lord "we can't" and then He assures us "He can" and helps us. I find the article below deceptive and will lead some saints not to put any efforts towards living godly towards the Lord. But the same people will be great efforts to live in this life, eat, have fun and do things in the world. We must put more effort forth to "excercise ourselves towards godliness."


---


EMPOWERING GRACE
by Gary Wilkerson

Most Christians have pressing concerns in their lives—a child who is running from God; a marriage filled with tension; a mounting stack of bills with no money to pay them. Why should you be concerned about falling back into works if you are facing these kinds of problems?

I believe there is no more practical issue than an enslaving mindset of works-over-grace. It has everyday implications because it directly affects how you deal with your problems.

Let’s say a young man with a pornography addiction wants to be set free. He also tends to have a “works” mentality. One night he reads the following passage: “How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to your word” (Psalm 119:9, ESV). The young man thinks if he reads his Bible more, he’ll find freedom. Next he reads a passage that says, “Pray for one another.” So he joins a men’s accountability group and asks them to pray for him.

All the actions he has taken are good but in his heart, he is depending on doing things—on works—to provide the freedom he seeks. Yet this mentality only drives him farther down into bondage and despair. Following after Christ is not dependent on works—working to receive what only God can supply by faith.

Another young man in the same church is also struggling with pornography. He prays, “Lord, I’m helpless without You and I know that all too well. Yet, I also know that You are my hope. I come to You now, leaving behind my despair and trusting You to do a work in me. I know I need just one thing to overcome this sin: Your empowering grace. Let it roll over me now. Otherwise, I’m hopeless.”

This man will be met by God’s empowering grace. Why? Because he has knocked down every barrier that is preventing him from that grace—all with one simple prayer.

These two examples may not seem very different on the surface. But in the spiritual realm, tectonic shifts have taken place. A heart has moved away from the old, enslaving covenant that says, “I have to earn this,” toward a covenant that says, “Your grace drives all my efforts.”

When we come to this point, we’ll see God do things in our lives we could never do through our own efforts. I urge you, don’t neglect the great salvation you have been given. Turn to Jesus, who is always greater—and whose grace is your strength for everything.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/10/27 8:01Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
And so Christ urges us, “Why don’t you take that scale of your own making and lay it down at the foot of the cross? I NEVER CALLED you to APPEASE me. I have called you to do one thing: receive my blessing of grace.



Quote:
Probably he has to tell this saying of Jesus to Paul who writes in 2 Cor 5:9 & 10 that we (saved Church going people) should have an attitude to PLEASE God because we have to appear before his judgment seat.



There is a difference between APPEASE and PLEASE, one seeks to pacify, the other to satisfy.

Quote:
It is true that we should not press on to perfection ourselves by our strength to appease God, but we should let God work in us by submitting our Body to him, else we would be resisting his grace. Workout what God's grace is working inside us.



Isn't that the gist of the article?

Also, you mentioned the physical healings as being only momentary, and that is true, physical healing is temporary, ephemeral, like a shadow of something else that is more real than it. Physical healing is like a sign-post pointing the way towards spiritual healing. The healings were a physical sermon that would hopefully teach the lesson that "Jesus saves" in an eternal sense.

In Christ,


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Ron Halverson

 2014/10/27 10:31Profile





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