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 Relationship or Religion

Mathew 23:9-12
Do not be called Rabbi, for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your Father, for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders, for One is your Leader, that is Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

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These verses spoken by Jesus were set in the context of Jesus speaking against the religious structure of His day. Consequently they have great relevance to our religious structure today. Particularly as it exist in the Amercan evangelical church. Thus the question would be asked does Jesus call us to relationship or religion?

Even a casual reading of the verses above would show Jesus is laying the vision of house
churches gathered around a relationship to Jesus Christ and to one another. Their is no religious structure involved other then dependence on Jesus above. As the Holy Spirit was given their would be those whom He would gift to serve as leaders. These leaders would serve in humility to shepherd the house churches.

I was converted during the Jesus Movement. I remember spontaneous house churches that started. They were not called that. But these fellowships that met in the simplicity and purity of devotion of Jesus were places of nurture and sweet fellowship. That is what the first century house churches were. They were places of relationship with Jesus and one another.

The old wine skin of religion does not allow this today.  I speak of the wine skin of American evangelical denominational non denominational religion. This is a religious structure unto itself that disdaines the work of the Holy Spirit to bring about the work of relationship to Christ. And to one another. Thus the new wine of the Holy Spirit can not and will not work in the olld wine skin of American evangelicalism. The Holy Spirit will not work in existing, decaying religious systems.

A new work of the Holy Spirit will require a new wine skin. That new wine skin will be believers who meet in simple groups. Perhaps as many as 2 or 3 people. They will meet in relationship to Jesus and one another. Not in a religious structure as dictated by one man.

Posted by Blaine Scigin

 2014/10/17 13:01









 Re: Relationship or Religion

I read with interest an article where a leading pastor in the Reformed movement resigned his position. The reason he resigned had nothing to do with immorality or being unfaithful to His wife. Rather his resignation was the way in which he led his church. The leadership of this pastor was described as bullying, domineering, abrasive, etc.

The article went on to say other notable pastors had resigned their positions. Some being accused of pride.

I only write this to not judge these men. But to show the weaknesses of organised religion. Also to reason that we are called into relationship to Christ and one another in small fellowships.

Blaine Scogin

 2014/10/17 13:28
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re: Relationship or Religion

Man, I just noticed this thread, and there's another one right now opposing traditional churches. Did you brethren plan this out lol.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/10/17 14:02Profile









 not laughing

Quote:
Man, I just noticed this thread, and there's another one right now opposing traditional churches. Did you brethren plan this out lol.



"lol"?

quite the opposite, as that is a terrible accusation to make.

 2014/10/17 14:13









 Re: Oracio

Nah bro! Wasn't planned. Just the Spirit working in the hearts of us trouble makers.:-)

Blaine

 2014/10/17 14:14
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re: not laughing

Quote:
"lol"?

quite the opposite, as that is a terrible accusation to make


Hey, I was just kidding. Sorry for my dry humor.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/10/17 14:23Profile









 Re:

I think your " sense of humor," causes a lot of trouble Oracio, hopefully not deliberate as that would be a terrible spirit to have................bro Frank

 2014/10/17 14:42
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
I think your " sense of humor," causes a lot of trouble Oracio, hopefully not deliberate as that would be a terrible spirit to have................bro Frank


I offer my sincere apologies for any offense I caused with my "humor". I guess I saw it as if we were sitting in a living room being light hearted on the matter. I joke around like that with certain brethren, but I'll try to be more careful here.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/10/17 15:59Profile









 a 9 year old knows better

from the mouth of babes, says "come out!!"

an anointed 9 year old knows better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx0P7jLH5VQ

 2014/10/17 16:52
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re: Relationship or Religion

Quote:
These verses spoken by Jesus were set in the context of Jesus speaking against the religious structure of His day. Consequently they have great relevance to our religious structure today. Particularly as it exist in the Amercan evangelical church.


So let me get this straight brother. You're saying that all traditional Protestant churches of today are part of a structure that is comparable to the religious structure which our Lord opposed during His time on earth? And that therefore, our Lord is similarly opposed to that "structure" today?

Quote:
Thus the question would be asked does Jesus call us to relationship or religion?


So by the word "religion" you mean false religion as opposed to genuine Christianity? And you're saying that being part of a traditional church equates being part of a "religion"(false religion) or "religious system"? as opposed to having a genuine relationship with Christ?

Quote:
I was converted during the Jesus Movement. I remember spontaneous house churches that started. They were not called that. But these fellowships that met in the simplicity and purity of devotion of Jesus were places of nurture and sweet fellowship. That is what the first century house churches were. They were places of relationship with Jesus and one another.


From what I've heard about that movement, the Lord also raised up men like Chuck Smith and Keith Green (and also used Leonard Ravenhill during that time), who were not part of a house church only type of movement but functioned in "traditional church structures".

Quote:
Thus the new wine of the Holy Spirit can not and will not work in the olld wine skin of American evangelicalism. The Holy Spirit will not work in existing, decaying religious systems.


So where does that leave those of us who currently continue to fellowship in traditional churches? If the Holy Spirit will not work in existing traditional churches, what's the point in continuing to be part of those kinds of churches? After all, every true believer wants to be part of a church where it is possible for the Holy Spirit to work, right?

Quote:
A new work of the Holy Spirit will require a new wine skin. That new wine skin will be believers who meet in simple groups. Perhaps as many as 2 or 3 people. They will meet in relationship to Jesus and one another. Not in a religious structure as dictated by one man.


So again, the traditional churches of today are all dictated by one man? And there is no genuine fellowship going on in any of those churches? If I'm misunderstanding something please explain brother, because that's what I'm seeing in your OP.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/10/18 21:36Profile





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