SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Judges 6:11-23 NASB

Print Thread (PDF)

PosterThread
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Judges 6:11-23 NASB

I read this scripture and noticed something I never saw before.

Judges 6:11-23 NASB

11 Then the angel of the LORD came and sat under the oak that was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite as his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the wine press in order to save it from the Midianites.

12 The angel of the LORD appeared to him and said to him, “The LORD is with you, O valiant warrior.”

13 Then Gideon said to him, “O my lord, if the LORD is with us, why then has all this happened to us? And where are all His miracles which our fathers told us about, saying, ‘Did not the LORD bring us up from Egypt?’ But now the LORD has abandoned us and given us into the hand of Midian.”

14 The LORD looked at him and said, “Go in this your strength and deliver Israel from the hand of Midian. Have I not sent you?”

15 He said to Him, “O Lord, how shall I deliver Israel? Behold, my family is the least in Manasseh, and I am the youngest in my father’s house.”

16 But the LORD said to him, “Surely I will be with you, and you shall defeat Midian as one man.”

17 So Gideon said to Him, “If now I have found favor in Your sight, then show me a sign that it is You who speak with me.

18 “Please do not depart from here, until I come back to You, and bring out my offering and lay it before You.” And He said, “I will remain until you return.”

19 Then Gideon went in and prepared a young goat and unleavened bread from an ephah of flour; he put the meat in a basket and the broth in a pot, and brought them out to him under the oak and presented them.

20 The angel of God said to him, “Take the meat and the unleavened bread and lay them on this rock, and pour out the broth.” And he did so.

21 Then the angel of the LORD put out the end of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unleavened bread; and fire sprang up from the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened bread. Then the angel of the LORD vanished from his sight.

22 When Gideon saw that he was the angel of the LORD, he said, “Alas, O Lord GOD! For now I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face.”

23 ”The LORD said to him, “Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die."

24 Then Gideon built an altar there to the LORD and named it The LORD is Peace. To this day it is still in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

My question: how many Beings appeared to Gideon? I used to think it was only one - an angel. But in reading this it seems to me there were two: an angel and the LORD himself. As one follows the conversation recorded here it appears as though Gideon was talking to two different persons. Verses 21-23 seem to bear this out.

Verse 21: the angel vanished from his (Gideon's) sight. V. 22 he exclaims:“Alas, O Lord GOD! For now I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face.” - Gideon reacts to what he has just witnessed. V. 23: the Lord responds to Gideons reaction: ”The LORD said to him, “Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die."

Looks to me like as though there were two Beings. What say?


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2014/10/9 10:51Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2661
Nottingham, England

 Re: Judges 6:11-23 NASB


It certainly appears to be two beings. I can't say for sure, but it looks like it.

 2014/10/9 11:09Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

AS unto the Son of man and the Son of God. These two but One. The same as the Angel of the Lord and the Lord Himself.

AS myself by the Christ birthed in me, as He is so are we sons of the Father.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit; are we speaking of three different persons or three different manifestations of One God. Is the Father the Son? Is the Holy Spirit the Father? This mystery I am still seeking but when I pray; our Father in the Sons Name by the power of the Holy Spirit.


In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2014/10/9 14:32Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Judges 6:11-23 NASB

Interesting observation. But I think verse 11 & 12 helps clear things up.

If you look at verse 11, you'll notice that the angel of the Lord sat under the Oak tree. And in verse 12 we see how the angel of the Lord, though sitting at the tree, must have been hiding or possibly invisible to Gideon, as it says in vs 12 that the angel of the Lord "appeared" to Gideon.

It would seem that when the angel of the Lord then "vanished" from his sight again in vs 21 that he became invisble again. But his being out of the sight of Gideon doesn't mean he still wasn't present, as we saw in vs 11, he was said to be sitting at the tree before he "appeared" to Gideon as in vs 12. Though not visible, the Lord (or angel of the Lord) still was able to speak to Gideon. He was able to speak to Gideon after he vanished in the same manner he was able to sit at the tree, though not visible.

I hope that makes sense :-)


_________________
Jimmy H

 2014/10/10 10:06Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re:

If it is only one Being, I find it very odd that different terms are used to identify him.

The Angel sat
The angel spoke: "the LORD is with you."
The angel lit the fire.
The angel disappears.

The LORD looked at him
The LORD spoke and said: "I have sent you. " "I will be with you."
The LORD continues speaking to Gideon after the angel disappears.


It still seems to me there were two beings. Of course, I know it will not impact ones salvation if I understand it differently.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2014/10/10 10:33Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Then at what point does the Lord enter the scene? If the Lord is a second being present under the oak tree, at what point does he enter the scene in the narrative?

Also, even if the Lord is distinct from the angel of the Lord, who says the Lord has to be phyically and visibly present for Him to look and speak to Gideon?

I seem to recall Jesus "seeing" Nathaniel sitting under a fig tree, when Jesus wasn't phsyically there to see Nathaniel sitting under the fig tree.

Either way, I suppose it doesn't matter :-)


_________________
Jimmy H

 2014/10/10 10:45Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5378
NC, USA

 Re:

I take it to mean that after the angel of the lord went up in the flame and Gideon freaked out a tad that God (not the angel of Lord) spoke to him, perhaps audibly.


_________________
Todd

 2014/10/10 12:47Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy