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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Mountains and the age of the Earth

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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Hello.

Interesting converstion. I thought I might add the following:

To put it in perspective, if you argue that the age of the Earth is only 6,000 years old, that means you have to be prepared to say that Noah's flood happened roughly 2400 BC... at a time in which some of the great ancient kingdoms of the world, such as Egypt, were in existence and having thriving dynasties.

I don't know about you, but I'm not personally comfortable dating Noah's flood to only 2400 BC.

I'm very much a champion of taking the Bible literally, and for that I believe in a literal creation, and even a young earth. But I have read in some scholarly literature that there are ways of counting the years in Genesis that would actually put Adam and Eve back in the Garden roughly 20,000 years ago.

Such a reading, I think should be prefered.

If we are to understand the Bible in a literal-historical-grammatical way (as I believe we should), then we need to read the Scriptures in their actual "historical" context. Adam, Eve, Noah, etc, were all historical people, and we should be able to date their existence into the actual history of the world.

Being that what is recogniezed as modern civilization and recorded history began to take root about 6,000 years ago, it seems to me only logical to believe Noah's flood would've happened some time before then. Indeed, if a universal flood happened (as I believe it did), then such a flood would've destroyed most of man's written record about himself. Such would explain why prior to 6,000 years ago, we have little account of mankind, and what evidence we do have is very scant and scattered. It's mostly fragments of broken pottery, tools, buildings, and other such things (they are things that would survive a flood.)

If we believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, that means Noah's flood would've happened in 2,400 BC according to some accounting methods of Genesis's genealogy. Such doesn't seem to fit the historical record, which would suggest to me that our accounting methods might be off a bit.

In 2,4000 BC, Egypt was a developed nation and was in the middle of its great dynasties. No flood seems to have happened in 2,4000 BC that wiped out Egyptian civilaztion, or caused them to reboot their order of kings. They seem to have been just fine and without interuption.

So, using some accounting methods of Genesis places Noah's flood during this time period. Such seems impossible to do if we hold to thie historical-grammatical interpretation of Scripture. Therefore, I think we might need to revise our accounting methods in our reading of Genesis in order to better date the history of the Bible and world.

I could be wrong in my interpretation. But there is nothing specifically in the Bible that says the Earth is only 6,000 years old. That's something that has been determined by reverse engineering the genealogies of Genesis using a very specific accounting method... a method which some scholars have disputed. Some have championed other accounting methods and ways of literally reading the geneaologies of Genesis, which takes us back much further than 6,000 years, and possibly as far as 20,000.

Exactly how old the world is, I'm not sure. I don't believe it's billions or millions. But I don't believe it is only 6,000 either.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2014/10/9 13:57Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5273
NC, USA

 Re:

Travis-- you are so right in what you posted. Thx

KJ- Good point. I am not sure what Ken ham does with Egypt. The flood did not wipe out the pyramids so I would suspect he says they are not as old as most archaeologists would say.

One quick question-- if the flood wiped out everyone except those on the ark where did the race of giants come from in the land of Canaan?


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Todd

 2014/10/9 14:48Profile
back-to-acts
Member



Joined: 2011/5/12
Posts: 28
Texas

 Re:

Hey TMK,

According to this verse it seems that they were there before and after. Now how that happened I have always questioned and pondered. Because I do believe 1 Peter 3:20 where it says that 8 persons were saved. Did the deomns come down again after the flood and produce more giants?

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Gen 6:4

My opinion is that these giants represent spiritual darkness ( the demonic & satans kingdom) that was destroyed by Christ at the ressurection. So God allowed them to stay so that He could put them to open shame. And the goal of the flood was to destroy the evilness of men, not yet the evilness of Satan. Just an opinion, not a doctrine.

TMK : What about the argument for when God created the earth He made everything good? So because of that He didn't make a baby tree that grows up, but He made a fully developed mature tree. So if we used the process of carbon dating it would show to be millions of years old, but when in reality it is only 6,000 years old in our time frame? I have always thought that, but I am not really sure if it is a viable argument. Just my own opinion on the subject.
What if all of our science is so under developed in the grand scheme of things all because when God created the earth He created it as fully developed to where if we try and date it with our current scientific methods it comes up to millions of years? Just a thought.

Travis


_________________
Travis Cunningham

 2014/10/9 16:20Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1369


 Re:

Hi TMK
I post this again you dont have to answer if you dont want you.
..........................................................
On your quote below tells us exactly where you are coming from.Should we then get rid of the other ridiculas areas so that people will consider christianity!
The ridiculas things Like
-Jesus was sinless
-Speaking in Tongues
-Miracles
-Burning bushes,Sea's that divide'etc
-Demons and Devils
etc etc
Where do we stop the compromise so that we look normal!
You cannot Marry up Gods word and Earthly views to make it appear acceptable

 2014/10/9 16:41Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1369


 Re:

Hi Lysa,
Nobody in the discussion said the age of the earth is a direct salvation issue.
I think that the verse "a day is a thousand yrs" is no proof for six thousand yrs and it isnt said in a historic context in the bible but anywhere the bible is recording history the bible is accurate and measured.
Also the bible simply says there are 76 generations to Christ(not 6000yrs)
God
Adam
Seth
Enosh
Kenan
Mahalalel
Jared
Enoch
Methuselah
Lamech
Noah
Shem
Arphaxad



Shelah
Eber
Peleg
Reu
Serug
Nahor
Terah
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Judah
Perez



Hezron
Ram
Amminadab
Nahshon
Salmon
Boaz
Obed
Jesse
David
Nathan
Mattatha
Menna
Melea



Eliakim
Jonam
Joseph
Judah
Simeon
Levi
Matthat
Jorim
Eliezer
Joshua
Er
Elmadam
Cosam



Addi
Melchi
Neri
Shealtiel
Zerubbabel
Rhesa
Joanan
Joda
Josech
Semein
Mattathias
Mahath
Naggai



Hesli
Nahum
Amos
Mattathias
Joseph
Jannai
Melchi
Levi
Matthat
Heli
Joseph
Jesus
yours staff

 2014/10/9 16:49Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Also keep in mind some conservative evangelical scholars believe the genealogy in Genesis contains "gaps". It's impossible to go in detail here, but if you study the Bible closely you'll discover that genealogies sometimes drop names off here and there, depending on the alleged purpose of each author. If you read some more academically minded commentaries, you'll find this is a very commonly accepted belief about Genesis. What we could have in some parts is simply a compressed genealogy, representing the major figureheads on ancient history.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2014/10/9 18:33Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5273
NC, USA

 Re:

Hi staff-

I did respond below at my post made 10/8 at 20:19:

"It is not fair to state that I am willing to throw out all the supernatural events in the Bible in order to make scripture more "palatable" for unbelievers. Comparing that to this argument regarding old earth/young earth is comparing apples and oranges.

I believe and would tell anyone that God miraculously created the universe out of nothing. I would tell anyone that the miracles in the Bible are true because God is supernatural; after all that is part of who God is. Any reasonable person should have no problem understanding that the position of Christians is that God works miraculously and in fact miraculous events like the incarnation and resurrection are the foundations of our faith. Obviously if they totally rule out the possibility of the miraculous and therefore cannot accept Christianity, so be it."


_________________
Todd

 2014/10/9 18:35Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5273
NC, USA

 Re:

Hey Travis-

I have never been a fan of the idea that God could have created the universe and earth etc with "an appearance of age" because it seems deceptive and contrary to God's character. After all, God knew that man would advance in technology and learning and science etc and I don't think he would "trick" us in this fashion.

Many people have no problem with this concept, but I always have. For example, to me it would be deceptive for him to create full grown trees with growth rings. Or that Adam and Eve were created with evidence of aging (teeth that are a little worn, e.g.). I am not saying he didn't create them full grown- but rather he did so in a pristine condition. Nor would I think that he would create a mountain range that showed signs of years of erosion.

Once again many people have no problem with this concept, so maybe its just me.


_________________
Todd

 2014/10/9 18:41Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:


Staff, explain this away....

Quote:
king jimmy wrote:
To put it in perspective, if you argue that the age of the Earth is only 6,000 years old, that means you have to be prepared to say that Noah's flood happened roughly 2400 BC... at a time in which some of the great ancient kingdoms of the world, such as Egypt, were in existence and having thriving dynasties.


_________________
Lisa

 2014/10/9 19:35Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1369


 Re:

Hi KingJimmy
I believe it is what it simply says one begat another etc
Although they dont fully marry up in one place only as far as I remember when I studied it doesnt add up to along period of time
Yours Staff

 2014/10/9 19:37Profile





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