| What would Remnant ecclesiology "look" like?|
how would it walk itself out?
i'm not setting up some divisive straw man "argument"...no no.
to those who are feeling the Pull of Jesus OUT into Green Pastures..ie Remnant (with NO implication that such are "more thans", but in humble dependence on God)
how would a Remnant gathering "look"?
just two(3!) notes from me, as I am Lead:
IF a common space is rented, say a plain humble storefront, instead of painting on the front "New Life Church".....just paint that Beautiful Name "Jesus" on the window?....nothing on the door, no hours of operation, no contact numbers....nothing Except the Name....Jesus, the hungry sheep of God WILL find their way in.
2. since this is NOT a "new denominational" work, might it be good and wise to check one's "-ism's" and "ists" at the door?....and since all we know is Christ and Him Crucified, might it be Good, to humbly implore Jesus to Pastor the work?...and let no man "steady the Ark"?
3. I feel no CLOCK should be inside, to profane the Time with the LORD, meaning a NEW "order of service"....worship sharing, its Scriptural....you have Bible, find it, i'll give you a hint...Paul. one at a time, as Jesus leads, share a song/hymn, a testimony, a Bit of Scripture, a prayer request, or a prayer, or praise report...try this kind of meeting...before you even realize....you been there for 4 hours, to the Glory of God.
these are just a few of my thoughts. In Jesus love, neil
| 2014/9/26 9:13|
| Re: What would Remnant ecclesiology "look" like?|
This is spooky and funny since the word, remnant, has bounced around in my mind for weeks now. I do not have an answer for the questions posed except a timid amen. You know we are feeling and praying our way along this path with two meetings at our home so far and a third for tomorrow night. They are not what I expected, and in some ways it has been "wow, Lord" and other ways "I'm too stupid to be a part of anything like this." :)
On my way into my office this morning I was asking the Lord to take over, and I confess that there is still too much distraction. I do not condemn us or pooh pooh what has occurred, but I am hungry for more of the Lord in our meetings. I sense a need to lead more, but at the same time I do not want to be the leader. We need Jesus to lead us. Then, I find this post which encourages me, but maybe not for the reasons you posted it, brother Neil.
I'm at a point today where I need to accomplish some things for work but how I am pressed in my heart to seek God. The question burning in me is how can we who are gathering so love one another in Christ in and outside of that meeting that unbelievers are convinced of the testimony of Jesus? I consistently ask for and invite unbelievers to come -- none have yet and that is all well and good, as the Holy Ghost is God of drawing men to Christ and we are on His timetable for all things -- but are we giving ourselves to Him and to each other in His Name and for His glory? Will men know we are His disciples? Will they know even if they don't believe to salvation?
I am SO ill equipped. Yet, I know He is all sufficient and needs nothing of me. Neil, thanks for posting this.
| 2014/9/26 9:29||Profile|
| God bless you "Dolfan"|
and God bless the fingers that typed your post.
the most attribute of your reply is YOU ARE REAL
no "religiostic" posturing.....if you are "ill-equipped", I am totally disqualified from any human leadership in a such a work, as I am a divorced man.
God willing, these things come to pass, I'm spending my time on my face, in intercessory prayer as covering.
my original post, I was more sealed in the head, so to speak, just wanted to start a conversation, a quiet reasoning...not a religious rumble.
I cant live without Revival...personal....and then Area wide......SW Wis, the Driftless region....so many dry churches....and during football season after 12 noon?....emptied, so folks can worship the Packers, and take their "communion"...beer...or worse.
and may God kindle a Fire for national revival.
i'm going to finally attempt to finish my firewood, as I have three days forecast of clear weather and 70 degree temps....but in the mean, I hoping and praying saints will add to this...I want to see what others feel in the Holy Spirit....hey dolfan, whats your name my brother?
please forgive me for the "Sherman" comment, I was being ungodly mean. in His love, neil
| 2014/9/26 9:56|
| Re: God bless you "Dolfan"|
Neil, my name is Tim. And, you weren't mean. I understand you better and that exchange helped. No problems here, brother.
Ironically, in light of your post about football and my own very recent weariness with it myself, the screen name is one I've had for many years on a couple of other forums and is due to my being a fan of the Miami Dolphins since I was a kid. :)
| 2014/9/26 10:06||Profile|
| Re: |
Me thinks a church should just strive to be a church. If you are striving to be a "remnant" church, and have some sort of specific "branding" that identifies you as one, I think you've probably missed the mark.
| 2014/9/26 11:55||Profile|
| Re: |
"I sense a need to lead more, but at the same time I do not want to be the leader."
What if that "sensing" is a spurring by the HS?
I get the sense that "leader" is a dirty word for some reason. I agree that in the early church ideally everyone participated, but there were still leaders. Some people need or want to be led.
Maybe if either of you could clarify this point it would be helpful.
| 2014/9/26 12:32||Profile|
| Re: King Jimmy|
"me thinks" you're just looking for an argument.
as you misread the conversation I long for.
may I humbly ask , in the love of God, could you see your way, to not post on this thread?
I only ask that because within three lines, you accuse me of "missing the mark", that's not a conversation, its an accusation, so if you please.....
| 2014/9/26 12:38|
| Re: |
| 2014/9/26 12:56||Profile|
| Re: TMK |
TMK...Tim "dolfan" wrote that, so it would be better if he told you what he meant.
as far as I am led, there's this unnatural divide between "clergy and "laity". it is REALLY enforced in the roman institution.....and the model in protestant 501c3 churches, where the "laity" sits passively on sundays and listens to a seminary trained "clergy" deliver a carefully prepared SPEECH, at a precisely pre-timed point..just as the whole "service" bulletin has outlined,
which to me smacks of "rome-lite"...and it endeavours to put God in a carefully timed box.
I believe when we ALL worship share, paying no attention to time, not only do we become one in the Household of God, we're also waiting on God, to move among us.
in this Most holy Faith, I believe we don't need more resource, or bigger buildings, we need more tears, and when one's sharing consists of asking the others to pray for their family, who might be involved with whatever godless endevour, could be drugs or alcohol, and we all listen as if it was our own family and God starts o move among us, we CRY, when we honor that prayer request, because their blood kin, has become our blood kin.
I pray i'm making sense.....WE NEED MORE TEARS, and we really need to get away from making human pastors a sort of "idol"...or "leaders"....do away with that roman divide of clergy and laity.
that's where the Holy Spirit has been leading me.
| 2014/9/26 13:07|
| Re: What would Remnant ecclesiology "look" like?|
Frank Bartlemans testimony--1906 (this might SEEM long, but if you're so Led...its a beautiful Read)
"Brother Seymour was recognized as the nominal leader in charge. But we had no pope or hierarchy. We were “brethren.” We had no human program. The Lord Himself was leading. We had no priest class, nor priest craft. These things have come in later, with the apostatizing of the movement. We did not even have a platform or pulpit in the beginning. All were on a level. The ministers were servants, according to the true meaning of the word. We did not honor men for their advantage, in means or education, but rather for their God-given “gifts” He set the members in the “body.” Now” A wonderful and horrible thing is come to pass in the land. The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and My people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof.” –Jer. 5:30, 31. Also “AS for my people, children are their oppressors (sometimes grown up ones), and women rule over them.”
- Isa 3:12.
Brother Seymour generally sat behind two empty shoeboxes, one on top of the other. He usually kept his head inside the top one during the meeting, in prayer. There was no pride there. The services ran almost continuously. Seeking souls could be found under the power almost any hour, night and day. The place was never closed nor empty. The people came to meet God. He was always there. Hence a continuous meeting. The meeting did not depend on the human leader. God’s presences become more and more wonderful. In that old building, with its low rafters and bare floors, God took strong men and women to pieces, and put them together again, for His glory. It was a tremendous overhauling process. Pride and self-assertion, self-importance and self-esteem, could not survive there. The religious ego preaches its own funeral sermon quickly.
No subjects or sermons were announced ahead of time, and no special speakers for such an hour. No one knew what might be coming, What God would do. All was spontaneous, ordered of the Spirit. We wanted to hear from God, through whoever he might speak. We had no “respect of persons” The rich and educated were the dame as the poor and ignorant, and found a much harder death to die. We only recognized God. All were equal. No flesh might glory in His presence. He could not use the self-only recognized opinionated. Those were Holy Ghost meetings, led of the Lord. It had to start in the poor surroundings, God. All were equal. No flesh might glory in His presence. He could not use the self- to keep out the selfish, human element. All came down in humility together, at His feet. They all looked alike, and had all things in common in that sense at least. The rafters were low, the tall must come down. By the time they got to “Azusa” they were humbled, ready for the blessing. The food was thus placed for the lambs, not for giraffes. All could reach it.
We were delivered right there from ecclesiastical hierarchism and abuse. We wanted God. When we first reached the meeting we avoided as much as possible human contact and greeting. We wanted to meet God first. We got our head under some bench in the corner in prayer, and met men only in the Spirit, knowing them “after the flesh” no more. The meetings started themselves, spontaneously, in testimony, praise and worship. The testimonies were never hurried by a call for “popcorn.” We had no prearranged programmed to be jammed through the time. Our time was the Lord’s. We had real testimonies from fresh heart-experience. Otherwise, the shorter the testimonies, the better. A dozen might be on their feet at one time, trembling under the mighty power of god. We did not have to get our cur from some leader. And we were free from lawlessness. We were shut up to God in prayer in the meetings, our minds on Him. All obeyed God, in meekness and humility. In honor we “preferred one another.” The Lord was liable to burst through any one. We prayed for this continually. Some one would finally get up anointed for the message. All seemed to recognize this and gave way. It might be a child, a woman, or a man. It might be from the back seat, or from the front. It made no difference. We rejoiced that God was working. No one wished to show himself. We thought only of obeying God.
In fact there was an atmosphere of God there that forbade any one but a fool attempting to put himself forward without the real anointing. And such did not last long. The Spirit, from the throne controlled the meetings. Those were truly wonderful days. I often said that I would rather live six months at that time than fifty years of ordinary life. But God is just the same today. Only we have changed."
| 2014/9/26 13:27|