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Quote: One second definite experience that lasts for a life-time was a doctrine that made second blessing holiness or certain pentecostal groups exclusive and at times divisive.
Colin: This is a very interesting period in the modern Pentecostal movement. We see the Assemblies of God and others who descended from Durham and we see many of the Pentecostal Holiness movements, including Parham's original work, who held to the three stage view. Growing up in this movement, I remember old ministers who preached against the Assemblies as having departed from the truth. At a bare minimum we were instilled with a "healthy" level of distrust.
Parham was originally a Methodist. They taught an experience beyond salvation in which a man was endued with power to live a separated and holy life. It was sometimes referred to as the "second blessing". Parham simply took the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with its accompanying manifestation of tongues, etc. and added it to his existing paradigm. As a result he taught a three-part experience. Seymore was a pupil of Parham and taught the same doctrine. So when Durham disagreed, it caused no small division.
It is funny, but I am a Pentecostal believer who grew up under those who knew Parham and I think I agree more with Durham than I do with Parham. Parham's teaching actually separated justification from the rebirth. Once could be justified (forgiven of past sins) and still not be born again. According to Parham, the rebirth did not happen until the experience of sanctification which was, as you said, a crises experience. I know many, many people who would tell you about the time they "prayed through" to sanctification. Unfortunately, I also know of some who have never received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit because they have never reached what they perceive as the sinless perfection they associate with sanctification.
I am convinced that one cannot receive forgiveness of sins without dying to self and surrendering to Christ. I simply cannot find a second work of sanctification and a third work of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in scripture. I do find that anyone who would come after Christ must deny himself and that being baptized into Christ means being baptized into His death.
I really think that what the old time methodists experienced that they referred to as the "second blessing" was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you read firsthand accounts of the manifestations at Cain Ridge and the years shortly thereafter, you can easily come to the conclusion that what they experienced was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And, true to form for the Holy Spirit of God, this experience led to a deeper and deeper life of holiness and separation to God.
But 100 years is a long time, and many things decay in that time. Parham was not experiencing what the early Methodists did, and he was hungry. But he had to fit what happened into his existing paradigm...hence the three part experience.
I will check out the article you referenced. Thank you for including it.
| 2014/9/23 16:02||Profile|
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Colin: Just for interest sake, the Bylaws of the Apostolic Faith Bible College. They are pretty much down the line as Parham taught them.
The common doctrinal beliefs are essentially as
Triune God; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
Creation and Formation
Man is basically sinful and in need of salvation
Salvation by Grace upon repentance toward God and
acceptance of Jesus Christ as one's personal Savior,
which is the conception of Spiritual Life
Sanctification of the Spirit, Soul, and Body, A second
definite work of Grace by the Lord Jesus Christ
Baptism of the Holy Spirit; evidenced by the speaking
in other languages.
Water Baptism (of all believers) by immersion in water
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the
Sacrament of the Lord's Supper
Washing of feet
Divine Healing through Jesus Christ for all believers
Do not condone divorce and remarriage
Destruction of the wicked
Rapture of the Man Child Class
Return of Jesus Christ to earth again; bodily and visibly
A ministry supported by tithes and offerings
These doctrines shall be adhered to in the teachings of the
Apostolic Faith Bible College, which in addition to other
doctrinal teaching approved by the Board from time to time
if the are not inconsistent with the above listed basic
| 2014/9/23 16:07||Profile|
| Re: |
Brother Travis wrote:
"I really think that what the old time methodists experienced that they referred to as the "second blessing" was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you read firsthand accounts of the manifestations at Cain Ridge and the years shortly thereafter, you can easily come to the conclusion that what they experienced was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And, true to form for the Holy Spirit of God, this experience led to a deeper and deeper life of holiness and separation to God."
Could it be that the "second blessing" is representative of God making His covenant with the individual? There are many examples where one, in faith, walks with the Lord prior to God establishing His covenant with the individual.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Is the "second blessing" the receiving of "the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
Carnal man cannot bring himself to experience what Paul writes of above.
| 2014/9/24 6:57||Profile|
Whittier CA USA
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I will humbly submit that based on 1Cor.12:13 every born again child of God is baptized with the Holy Spirit.
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”
Someone says, “But that is the baptism “by” the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, not the baptism “with” or "of" or "in" the Holy Spirit. But in the original the word translated “by” is the Greek word “en”, the same Greek word translated “with” in every verse in the Gospels and Acts which mentions baptism with the Holy Spirit.
On a lighter note, the word translated “all” in 1Cor.12:13 is the Greek word “pas”, which literally means “all, every, whosoever”, meaning every single believer in Christ, whether Jew or Greek, slave or free.
That being said, not every believer is equally filled with or full of the Holy Spirit. I’d make a distinction between the baptism and filling with the Holy Ghost. To be filled with the Holy Spirit is to be controlled by Him and to allow His grace to flow in and through our lives. The more we yield to Him the more we are filled with Him as believers in Christ.
I’d also humbly submit that we must be careful not to create a doctrine out of narrative passages in the Gospels and Acts. For example, in Acts 10 and Acts 19 we read that when the believers received the Holy Spirit they spoke in tongues. In other words, when they were indwelt by the Spirit they spoke in tongues. Does that mean one must speak in tongues as evidence of receiving the indwelling of the Spirit or salvation? Of course not. Yet the Oneness Pentecostals have taken those passages to mean just that, which I’d say is heresy. Just because God did certain things in a certain way in the Gospels and Acts does not mean He is bound to do those things in the same way all of the time. The epistles are where we draw more clear doctrinal teaching from. The Scriptures do not contradict each other.
| 2014/9/24 11:14||Profile|
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And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Has the individual "experienced" what Paul describes above? Has the Spirit of His Son emptied every thought, every sense of self of heart and mind and filled the heart with inexpressible joy that can only worship the Father? Has the individual fallen to his or her knees and being totally consumed in the moment with crying out to God incapable of anything else?
| 2014/9/24 15:18||Profile|
| Re: What Is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?|
Listen to some Duncan Campbell sermons (Especially his testimony), some James A Stewart sermons, and Bill McLeod sermons... They will help you a lot regarding being filled with the spirit! They knew it by experience
| 2014/9/24 22:40||Profile|
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Acts 1:4-5 KJV
4 and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 1:8 KJV
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 2:4 KJV
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 8:14-17 KJV
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (for as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:44-46 KJV
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Acts 19:2-6 KJV
2 he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized?
And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
It is clear from scripture that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from being baptized into Christ.
It is the Holy Spirit falling upon those that are already baptized into Christ. The Holy Spirit will only fall on Those who are in Christ to immerse them with the power of the Spirit to be His witness.
We must be in Christ in order to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus for ministry after he was baptized in the river Jordan. The Holy Spirit is needed to come upon us, filling us, and empowering us to witness Jesus Christ after we have received Him in regeneration.
Blessings to all!
| 2014/9/24 23:04||Profile|