| Ray comfort / Humanism|
Looking at Ray Comfort's techniques for evangelism, I am a little surprised. He says to use the law to show sinners where they stand before God. On his training video the normal flow of the conversation goes something like this (condensed):
Ray: Have you ever lied?
Ray: Have you ever stolen something?
Ray: You have just addmitted to me you are a lying, theiving (etc) at heart.
Ray:So if God were to judge you according to the 10 commandments, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to heaven or hell?
Ray: Does that concern you?[/i]
now that sounds very much like he is "going around handing out free tickets to heaven" Is that salvation?
[i]And then the fundamentalists, along the same line, are now tuning in along this same wavelength of humanism. Until we find it something like this: "Accept Jesus so you can go to heaven! You dont want to go to that old, filthy, nasty, burning hell, when there is a beautiful heaven up there! Now come to Jesus so you can go to heaven!" And the appeal could be as much to selfishness, as a couple of men sitting in a coffee shop, deciding they are going to rob a bank to get something for nothing.[/i]
- Paris Reidhead, Ten Shekels and a Shirt
how do these two both fit together? it seems like a total contradiction?!
| 2005/4/22 22:42||Profile|
Phoenix, Arizona USA
| Re: Ray comfort / Humanism|
I don't really believe there is a contradiction here.
If we take Mr. Comforts words in the complete context of the message he preaches then what he is saying in your brief quote is not an "appeal to selfishness". Rather it is an appeal for self-righteous men and women to see their true condition before a holy God, namely that they are clothed in dirty filthy rags without the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
I believe that a sinner must be brought to face his true condition before God. Until he is, the provision God has made in Christ Jesus will only be a joke and an affront to him.
Mr. Comfort promotes using the 10 commandments as a means of exposing this true condition of lost mankind. When a sinner, by the grace of God, does see his true condition, then the mercy and love of God in the provision of Jesus Christ is a precious thing and God is glorified as the sinner comes just as he is, without a single plea in his own defense other than the work of Christ on the cross.
Nothing in my hands I bring
Simply to the cross I cling
| 2005/4/22 23:32||Profile|
| Re: Ray comfort / Humanism|
I am glad that someone is listening.
I think what Ray is trying to do is show sinners who 'think' they are ok that they are not ok.
But as to Ray statement:
Ray:So if God were to judge you according to the 10 commandments, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to heaven or hell
It's obvious according to the word of God, both sinner and saint if they were judged according to the ten commandments we'd all be sent to hell, no one is righteous no not one.
| 2005/4/22 23:35|
| Re: ray comfort/humanism|
How Ray Comfort presents a decision to a person is what makes his approach different and not humanism. He does not tell the person to repeat after him and say the sinners prayer. If he sees conviction in a person he will ask if that person wants to pray themselves and after he will pray with them.
I have also seen him tell people to pray when they go home, that night,etc. if the person does not seem receptive at that time.
I think that is what makes him different from others just handing out tickets to heaven.
A quick listen to his sermon True and False Conversion will show you that.
| 2005/4/23 0:35||Profile|
You'll also notice that Ray looks for brokeness before presenting the salvation message, prefering to leave sinners convicted, than to "hurry them through the birth canal". Ray's catch phrase is "Law to the proud. Grace to the humble". If that's humanistic, then I guess I'm a humanist....and so is God.
| 2005/4/23 1:15||Profile|
| Re: Ray comfort / Humanism...|
Thanks all for your fast responses! I know he does very well in all those areas to avoid humanism and has really stuck to the truth. (as you have all shown)... but I just dont understand the "hell" thing...
He has shown people their sin and how bad they are (which is brilliant), but then seems to proceed to tell them that they are goig to hell if some action isn't taken. That is all well and good and the truth but[i][b]...heres somebody trembling because hes gonna be hurt in hell.[/b] And he has no sense of the enormity of his guilt and no sense of the enormity of his crimes[ray comfort has it right in that part, they know they are sinners][b] and no sense of his insult against Deity. Hes only trembling because his skin is about to be singed... [/b][/i]
now with ray comfort's they DO have the guilt, but is it only partly revealed?
Thereis room for, but no prompting, for the sinner to understand he was wronged [b]God[/b], and when a sinner sees the goodness and righteousness of God, they are brought to conviction and godly sorrow and repentance....
Ray does talk to people about that, after he has asked them if they are concerned about thier eternal fate. They listen, but is it about a ticket to heaven or about meeting their redeemer?
Please understand im not taking a swing at ray comfort, i honestly have nothing against him, just want to understand so I can evangelise effectively!
| 2005/4/23 9:53||Profile|
| Re: ray comfort|
Another thread about this: [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4768&forum=34&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=1]Evangelsim: Ten Shekels- Ray Comfort?[/url]
In Christ, Chanin
| 2005/4/23 10:01||Profile|
| Re: comfort/humanism|
thanks, I just read it, but still can't find much on the point where he talks about going to hell. telling a sinner that the consequence of sin is hell is great.
but if you were saved as a result of ray comfort's evangelising, and i asked "why did you repent?" would the answer be "because I was going to hell" or "because I saw God for who He really is and His goodness showed my corruption..."
Godly sorrow isn't because of "oh im a sinner, im going to be judged" its because "i have wronged God"
doesnt it require some sort of revelation of God's righteousness and goodness? shouldnt that revelation be sought after for the right motives? (eg. not to escape hell)
| 2005/4/23 10:17||Profile|
| Re: wretchedness|
yes, I think people should have the revelation of how wretched they are without God- how they are nothing and He is everything.
I do believe that it takes revelation, their eyes of their understanding opened.
But I suppose there is a fear of God that goes along with it, fear of His wrath and judgement.
I am just typing thoughts...
I don't know. I am one of those "second experience" people. I thought i was saved because I had said a prayer- but years later realize that i fell away and was either not saved or lost it when I chose to rebel against God's will for me.
But this second experience was definately a slow revelation from God that I was not obeying His word and was grieving Him.
In Him, Chanin
| 2005/4/23 11:26||Profile|
I've listened to alot of Ray's teachings and he makes sure that when he witness to a person they know they have offended GOD and Gods judgment is HELL. He is not using Christ as some way to escape something that will hurt you, but Christ is our only way to get forgiveness and that God and we may fellowship. Do you see the difference? One is focused on just a mere escape from hurt the other is for communion (or right relationship) with God.
| 2005/4/23 11:35||Profile|