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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is the rapture and what happens before the rapture

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staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1510


 Re:

Hi KingJimmy
The pattern of Elijah is a very clear and percise one.It always involves 3 1/2 years or 42 months or 1260 days or times time and half a time,It always makes way for Christ and it always comes before the Lord.The scriptures I have pointed out are clear not some vague numerology stuff.The parrellels are just as clear as the parrellels of the Temeple in the old compares to the temple in the new.
The main question that has to be asked is ?do you believe that Elijah will be sent again?If so then Elijah comes just before the lord not after.If not then you will have to explain away some scripture like Malachi,Matt 17,the baptism of Jesus,Peter and Acts 1-2 and the two witness's passages.
Peter at pentecost understood this pattern clearly because he stood up to make sure that the pattern was complete with the 12th stone.Peter understood that Pentecost originated with John the Baptist.The last thing done in Acts before Pentecost was the 12th stone was put in place then the fire fell.
John the Baptist didnt fully understand though because he sent a messenger to Jesus asking whats up?He made the correct prophesy about Jesus but didnt understand that the conquering King comes the second time.Jesus understood Elijah clearly.We know this because he taught the disciples about it coming down the mountain and Jesus understood that John was fullfilling prophesy when he allowed him to be baptised.Thats why its hard to understand the baptism of Jesus.John was fullfilling prophesy of Mount Carmel that the water would be poured over the sacrifice.Jesus said so that" all would be fullfilled".
Could you show where it is a "far bit of Stretching"?
The burden is on us to show what Elijah is meant to do when he came as John?and when he comes in the future?
I think the parrellels are simple and straight forward and there are more than that in the Elijah story.
If we want the fire to fall again then their will have to be a restoration of the Altar of the Lord.Only Elijah can do this.He can only do this when he is sent.
We have preachers today asking "where are the Elijahs?"
Only understanding Elijah as the confrontational,heroic and powerful Prophet but without really understanding his role in making everything ready for the Lord to Come.Not understanding that you cant make up Elijah he has to be sent.
Elijah in the future will make way again for the Lord to come we may not know the exact date or time but we will know the approximity the same as John the Baptist did.
Their is no point in the Harbinger or Forerunner coming after Christ is their?
Again we have to ask does Elijah come again?If so what will his Job be?
The Elijah in the future will make way for the coming of the Lord by again restoring the 12 stones and baptising with repentance.Once more "All" will go out to see Elijah in the wilderness leaving behind anything that is not of God in the city there power or positions to stand united in the one place with all other Christians.The barrier of denomination gone and the people of God restored to one complete body before the Lord comes made ready by the foreruner,
Yours Staff

 2014/10/16 5:51Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1510


 Re:

Hi Budgie
Give me a bit of time to consider what you are saying and I will respond if I can,Thanks Staff

 2014/10/16 5:54Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5484
NC, USA

 Re:

Staff-

It sounds like you are saying that some day a literal fiery prophet with the spirit of elijah will come that people will be drawn to resulting in a revival and that we should start counting 3.5 years from when he appears to figure out when the rapture is going to happen. Is this correct?

If so, in your view will this new "elijah" be obvious? I.e., he couldn't be preaching today because if so we would know it?

Or might he be an obscure Elijah preaching somewhere where most people wont even know he exists?


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Todd

 2014/10/16 6:17Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

Thanks staff for posting those things about elijah and jesus and the shadowing effect ,verry interesting

 2014/10/16 7:07Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1510


 Re:

Hi TMK
that is more or less correct .
U have to understand that Gods view of someone who is " a voice in the wilderness"like john or elijah is about total success whereas the secular view is about a person who is correct but is not listened to only in hindsight.Elijah will b totally sucessful
yours staff

 2014/10/16 12:58Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
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Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:


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Nigel Holland

 2014/10/16 13:08Profile
budgie
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Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: To those interested in timing of 2 witnesses (Elijah) ??

Please take the time to read the following, I have tried to keep it as brief as possible

The timing of the two witnesses
I personally do believe that Elijah is still to come and that he will come before the Day of Christs Coming.
Some say he is one of the two witnesses, I do not know but if he is then the timing of the two witnesses is critical.

Some say that the two witnesses come in the first half of the 7 year Tribulation period, I will prove scripturally that this is not true and that they are in fact in the last 3 ½ years.

Fact 1 There is no 7 Year Tribulation, look at what Jesus said
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus said that this precise period of Tribulation commences at the time of abomination spoken of in Daniel, and this is in the middle of the 7 year Treaty that was made.

Truth 1 is that the Tribulation Jesus spoke of is 3 ½ years long no longer no shorter

Fact 2 The two witnesses are present during the time that the holy city is being trampled by the Gentiles
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
The two witnesses only prophesy for 3 ½ years, the Gentiles only trample the Holy City for 3 ½ years, both spoken of at the same time.

Truth 2 The city is only trampled for 3 ½ years

Fact 3 The two witnesses are killed and raised from the dead just prior to the 7th Trumpet being blown.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Scripture is very clear as to the timing of their death and Resurrection, it is at the time between the 6th and 7th trumpet, it is at the same hour when a great earthquake splits the city of Jerusalem, 1/10 of the city falls and 7000 are killed, the Kingdoms become Christ and He shall reign forever, Jesus Wrath is Come and it is the time when Jesus is deciding who of the dead shall rise and He is rewarding His servants, the prophets, the saints.
Truth 3 The two witnesses are raised between the 6th and 7th Trumpet just prior to the Reign of Christ and His rewarding the saints and judging the earth

Fact 4 If the two witnesses are in the first 3 ½ years then all of the 6-7 seals and all six of the trumpets must take place before Abomination takes place, the two witnesses are raised in between the 6th and 7th Trumpet, that also means that Jesus is reigning and rewarding His saints, in the middle of the 7 years, some would call that mid trib.

Fact 5 You will not find anywhere in Revelations of it speaking of a 7 year period, nowhere is it mentioned, but what you will find is the constant mention of a 3 ½ year period, you will find that the focus is very strong on this very precise 3 ½ year period, the same as Jesus when He focused on a very specific period called the Tribulation which He said commences at the middle of a 7 year Treaty.

If one also does a study of the events spoken of that happen between 6th and 7th seals, 6thy and 7th trumpets and 6th and 7th bowls and overlaps them one will discover an amazing picture and how they blend so perfectly.

 2014/10/16 17:31Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1510


 Re:

Hi Budgie
My thinking has been that its in the first half but I will look at what ur saying closely.
One other thing I think that this world in God's Eyes deserve a credible witness that the end is about to come.
I think that at the moment both pre and post trib believers would say that we do not have that today,
Yours Staff

 2014/10/16 18:14Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1510


 Re:

Hi Budgie
Just on 1 thess 4.13 I am looking at what ur saying and to be honest I need to think about what ur saying its complicated,
Yours Staff

 2014/10/16 18:21Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Staff, thanks for taking the time to explain. I think for now we will just have to disagree. I'm still confused how Elijah serves as a type of the rapture. But that's ok :-)


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Jimmy H

 2014/10/16 18:30Profile





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