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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is the rapture and what happens before the rapture

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5415
NC, USA

 Re:

I go believe in a rapture, but not TWO raptures. One rapture at the second coming of Christ. The creation of the new heavens and new earth happens at this point- at least that's how I view it.


_________________
Todd

 2014/9/14 11:42Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re: We appleth, and orangeth...?

Elijah too was "raptured" similarly to Enoch. In neither of these cases was a pattern for humanity devised, or a theological paradigm created for humans to leave earth without death. I do not consider these to be raptures, in that my understanding of rapture is based on other things.

To begin with, Jesus' transfiguation on the mountain in the presence of His three disciples seems a better illustration of what rapture is all about. Several of His parables spoke of finding a special treasure- a lost coin, a pearl of great price, a treasure hidden in a field- and also of selling all He had to buy the field. We take these as illustrations of His great work of redeeming mankind, and rightly so. But just what was that pearl, that treasure He found?

I would suggest it is the rapture He experienced on the mountain, the glorification that for a brief time He wore in somewhat public view. We must not forget that Jesus was a man, and had "not counted equality with God to be grasped, but emptied Himself and became obedient unto death."

From His conversation with Satan in the wilderness where He was challenged to prove He was the Son of God, Jesus knowingly rebuffed the great liar and said this: "MAN shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from God." In other words, He told Satan that He was going to defeat him not as God, but as a man!"

This is critical, because if He had not become fully man He would not have qualified to die as a man for our sin.

And so this "man" walks up onto the mountain and receives the reward of His righteousness, a glorification hitherto unknown by any mortal man!

It is at this point He could have returned to heaven, the bosom of the Father, and the joys of that presence. He would have completed a sinless walk on earth and received the glory that a righteous man should have. It was His to hold for all eternity. But He would not have us.

As we know, He took it off and laid it aside. Driven by a love for those disciples and us by extension, He went down the mountain and onto the cross. There He purchased for us the right to have exactly what He had on the mountain. Complete rapture!

Let me boldly say, I have been raptured in a measure, with a little taste of the glory. Weeping, blubbering out praises in English and other tongues, filled to almost pain with adorations and gushings of love and adoring of Jesus my savior! It was a baptism in His Spirit, a rushing of energy and emotion that words fail to adequately describe. It changed my life, and it changed the bible, too! Suddenly I had an inkling of what John was talking about in chapters 14, 15, 16, 17. He comes to abide within, making His home there! Oh! So that's what that means! It is indeed rapture!

Now, typing on the keys of this device is an old man with crochety joints and diminished physical strength. I cannot fly, have a hard enough time jumping! But I burst inside for the consummation of what I have tasted, longing to be clothed with the Lord Himself who loved me and gave Himself for me. I shudder to think of how He loves me even more than I love Him!

Parsing verses to prove theological points is usually fruitless, people don't change their views very easily. The desire to win arguments is just old flesh in me, I flee from it in the Spirit. But I would encourage my brethren who have never had a Holy Spirit baptism, or are not sure, to ask The Father for it.

It may change your perception of rapture, it did for me. But just hearing from God is enough. The Spirit, The Helper, will guide you into all truth.


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2014/9/14 13:08Profile









 Re:

Many thanks Sidewalk for testifying to your rapture, and I would like to mention my own testimony when for three days, I was unaware of anything but an overwhelming presence of the Lord pouring out His love for me, and opening the seals of scripture, in such a powerful manner that I did not think that my physical heart could survive it.

But I would caution anyone to seek the Lord Himself, and not merely an experience, as the enemy is forever prowling and can give a substitute of the baptism which many have succumbed to.

 2014/9/14 13:44









 Re:

Experiences can be self induced or worse.

 2014/9/14 13:56
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re: The real thing

Thank you, Krautfrau! Good words and a great testimony! I have known people whose baptisms in the Spirit lasted multiple days, so glad you had that experience.

You are indeed right about prowling spirits, but we have a direct promise from God that those who seek Him will find Him. Those who are motivated by a lust for power or a drug-like experience are more than likely to find their way into Satan's cold bony fingers. It will be nothing like the genuineness of falling in love with Jesus.

The true baptism will be filled with the truth of scripture, and be marked by a hunger for His word. Still- the Liar never sleeps, never loses his contempt for God or His precious creation. Those who are filled with the Holy Spirit are well advised to join themselves to other mature believers so that the love of Jesus can flow back and forth.

Attacks will come, cling to the Overcomer.


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2014/9/14 14:05Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

Iv experenced much the same when i was baptised with the spirit ,,unspeakable joy extasy ,fear and trembling . tears and more tears of gratatude. my hands and face felt unbelievable pleasure ,,this was ten times more powerfull then my new birth ....

But that is not what the bible is talking about when it says we will be raptured and caught up together to meet the lord in the air when he comes to slay the man of sin ,and our bodys ar changed in the twingling of the eye ,and we are glorafied .... We are still waiting for that ,and even more fillings of the holy spirit

 2014/9/14 15:29Profile









 Re:

Gary

Sidewalk is right, the true baptism leads into truth. The false one is just about sensations. The man of sin is destroyed in the true baptism and we are glorified. To be glorified is to share in the inheritance of Christ and it is for this life.

 2014/9/14 16:21
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

So now your saying there is no literal bodily second coming of Christ and a rapture at that time ,,so all the great men of god lake raven hill tozer Wilkinson Wesley Whitfield ,washer ,,are all wrong and you are right ,,that is great pride . I even would bet if i was a gambler ,,that side walk believes in a literal second coming of Jesus and a rapture that occurs around that time
So he would not be supporting your fasle teaching , please correct me sidewalk if im wrong ..


You've been deceived you you believe that Christ wont come back ,that is obviously another false teaching of the quakers

the man of sin who is the literal Antichrist , is not the old man who was me , but the son of perdition .

 2014/9/14 17:07Profile









 Re:

I have never expressed my views on what happens at the end of time. That is speculative theology and l don't indulge in it.

My concern is this life and the process of becoming Christlike and He comes a second time when we cease to work from the flesh. If one is still operating through this means, then one will be blind to those deeper meanings in scripture and give them a literal interpretation. It is best to concentrate on the here and now.

 2014/9/14 18:11
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

Paul called it the blessed hope ,we hope for what we dont see ,it is an event that we are to concentrate on ,to hope and wait for . Paul doesnt seem to agree with what your saying ..

The bible is clear that it is not as you say, speculative theology and never has been in the Christian tradition ,though it varies. Paul wrote is letter to the Thessalonians ,so there was no speculation amongst the brethern ....


With respect to you and the title of the thread ,this is about what happens around the time Jesus comes back , not baptism in the spirit .....

 2014/9/14 18:29Profile





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