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brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

I agree with ya that it is a second type of blessing.

Jesus also said the the disciples names were written in heaven before the day of Pentecost ,Jesus said to Mary that her sins were forgiven and i think he said as well that her faith had saved her, he may have said that in another place as well. He also said to zackeous the tax collector that salvation has come to his house

So if Pentecost was not salvation but a second blessings so to speak ,it opens up the door to looking at Cornelius as an allready soundly saved man .

Jesus did say IF YOU OBEY MY COMMANDS ,then i will send another helper the ,holy spirit

So spirit baptism doesnt come on an unbeliever , but as Jesus said some who obeyed his teachings.

Sorry about linking the other threads with this one it just seem like a logical conclusion to do so

If we take Jesus word LITERALY when he said IF YOU OBEY ME ,I WILL SEND THE COMFORTER .
how can we believe Jesus would send the holy spirit to baptize some who wasn't in obedience to Jesus teachings .

What is the correct context to those words ,does the right context change the interpretation of the above verse ,or does Jesus only give the holy spirit baptism to those who are obeying him and seeking god further .....

Peter said to Cornelius that the word that you know ,showing that he allready believed in Jesus and knew enough about Jesus to be considered as peter said cleansed but may not have knowen about the resurrection or maybe even the crucification .

So peter said he was cleansed ,and Luke said he feared god and served god with his whole family allready before baptism with the spirit ,,but need the baptism of the spirit as we all do do continue in our salvation ,,as peter said before that , when ask by the Jews what must we do ,he said repent be baptized ,and receive the holy spirit ,,so we all need to get that special filling of the spirit .

SO if that is true then we now have evidence that a person who is justfied by faith and fears god can still be a soldier and serve as one of gods ministers in the context of the letter of romans ,where Paul said they do not bare the blade in vain.

And that is not to even mention that he may have still have remained a soldier after baptism in the spirit ,especial if he herd john the baptizer preaching repentance to the centurions ,and said to them be content with your wages ,john preaching showed that it was till OK for them to be national guards

 2014/9/11 3:48Profile









 Re:

Sree,
Personally I am 1000000000% convinced that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a second experience after salvation, but it should never stop either. The command to every believer is to "be being filled with the Spirit" and then Paul tells us one of the ways we can position ourselves for this...

"...speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; always giving thanks for all things..." This is the next verse after Eph 5:18.

He is the Spirit of Truth and it stands to reason that the more we are filled with the Holy Spirit the more of an understanding of Truth there will be. Unfortunately the "crazy wing" of the charismatic/pentecostal movement has "stolen" and perverted the meaning of what it means to be filled with the Holy Spirit. So much so that now we have books and conferences speaking out against ANYTHING that remotely resembles what we see in the book of Acts.

But back to my point. I can now see why so many believers who are born again can believe false doctrines...because they have not been filled with the Holy Spirit, not even ONCE!!!

And to Oracio, just because a preacher is famous and has a large following doesn't mean anything. He can still love the Lord but believe some false doctrines and in that way miss many of the Truths about the character and ways of God...and yet all the while be used of the Lord to preach the gospel. Does that make any sense at all?

 2014/9/11 4:19
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

Mark if you are referring to Paul washer ,he is a good example of a lost man preaching the Gospel ,he is as hell bound as they come ......

NO THAT WAS A JOKE .....

Paul washer gives testimony when he went up in to the mountains fasting and praying for more of god ,and ended up filled on his face in terror when the holy spirit came on him ,,and out of his mouth flowed ,the psalms ,i cant remember i event think he said that he never even memorized them they just came prophetical,,it changed his life .

He just called it filled with the spirit , im not sure if he equated it with the baptism .I think thats Way oraco used Paul washer as a good example of a secessionist ..

 2014/9/11 4:36Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE:/// A modern day example of a Spirit-filled cessationist I would point out is brother Paul Washer.///

In the area of there personal experience I would not consider Paul Washer nor Spurgeon a cessationist, Spurgeon often referred to it as Rest

Paul Washer calls it experiencing God.

Where I would seperate continuationist from the cessationist would be in an example like Martin Lloyed Jones / BB Warfield




 2014/9/11 9:22Profile









 Re:

"if you are referring to Paul washer..."

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular actually. Just making the point that just because someone is a BIG NAME, doesn't mean their theology is right, meaning that there is some TRUTH that they have missed. I think that is rectified the more and more we are filled with the Holy Spirit.

I hope this thread doesn't descend into name dropping and fighting over men...sigh:)

 2014/9/11 11:20









 Re:

So is the baptism of the Holy Spirit valid for today? Does the gift of tongues, prophesy, and healing still operate in this day and age?

Bearnaster

 2014/9/11 12:12
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Brothers, I want to lovingly exhort regarding one of the reasons why there is sometimes contention between cessationists and continuationists. Namely, because continuationists paint a broad brush over cessationists as those who are not filled or baptized with the Spirit.

In doing that they write off (maybe unknowingly) much of church history, including times of great awakenings or revivals, as times when there was no baptism or filling of the Spirit, since the common view was "cessationism" and there were no tongues or healing ministries practiced in those circles or periods. I have seen first hand with believers I've known in person, the unreasonableness of such a view.

Quote:
In the area of there personal experience I would not consider Paul Washer nor Spurgeon a cessationist, Spurgeon often referred to it as Rest

Paul Washer calls it experiencing God.



And yet, neither of them have believed in the continuation of the gift of tongues, so technically by definition they were/are "cessationists".

But again, my point in naming them was in trying to reason about finding common ground between both types of believers. What some have simply called the filling others have called the baptism, yet they are similar experiences being referred to of an overflowing of the Spirit operating in the believers life, empowering for godliness and service.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/9/11 12:17Profile









 Re:

It us my observation that those in the Reformed Calvinistic movement fear the Holy Spirit. It would seem their idea of the Trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Bible.

Far easier and safer to deal with them the dynamic of a personal encounter with the Holy Spirit.

My thoughts.

Bearmaster

 2014/9/11 13:22
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

brother Bear you just proved my point. I'll have to humbly bow out of this one. sigh.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/9/11 13:29Profile









 Re:

As someone who was part of the Reformed movement for some time, I can say that as far as the network I was part of, it is wrong that they do not pray for the Holy Spirit to come. They desire to be filled but will not call it a baptism. And it is not the baptism when and if He comes. It is just a blessing. It does not change them fundamentally.

I was a cessationist then I was baptised in the Spirit and received power from on high to live a holy life and have power for witnessing. God showed me that all of the gifts are for today bar one which ceased when it was no longer needed.

But I believe in prophecy, in apostles, in healing etc. Just not the one which Paul said would cease.

 2014/9/11 13:31





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