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trxx
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Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 85
ON Canada

 New Covenant

I would like to get some thoughts concerning the New Covenant. What are the terms of the New Covenant?
It is certainly not laid out in the New Testament like the Old Covenant is laid out in the Old Testament. Actually, my understanding is that "testament" is a latin word for "covenant".
Is the New Covenant conditional as was the Old Covenant? Or is it unconditional, more like the Noahic or Davidic covenants? If it is conditional then what might the conditions or terms be? If it is unconditional then would that amount to universalism where salvation is given to all? My immediate thoughts go to a conditional covenant like the Old Covenant. But the terms seem to be vague. Any thoughts?


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Bruce

 2014/8/30 22:43Profile
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 Re: New Covenant

Some good questions brother, one good starting place would be to listen to a few sermons by godly speakers on the topic of New Covenant:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/scr_index.php?act=topicSermons&topic=New%20Covenant&page=0

david wilkerson
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3168&commentView=itemComments

alan martin:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=15967&commentView=itemComments

zac poonen:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=18914&commentView=itemComments

miki hardy:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=24535&commentView=itemComments


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/8/30 22:57Profile









 Re: New Covenant

Brother I have posted different threads on the New Covenant. So you can probably find those through the Google search function. There has been some good give and take discussion on those threads.

I only share the above because I think the moderators are wanting to see this issue put to rest for a time. Mainly my fault because I was posting on it extensively.

Bearmaster.

 2014/8/30 23:04
trxx
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Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 85
ON Canada

 Re: Covenant

Thank you both for your responses to my query. I will check out the above references to see if they answer my questions. It may be old hat for some but this particular study is relatively new to me. Last year, while reading through the Bible I decided to record all of the references to "covenant." I chose that word randomly + chose another purposely, "if" (conditional statements). I did not realize the significance of the 2 words together, "covenant" + "if" until having finished reading through the Bible + perusing all of the references gathered. It seemed a significant discovery to better understand our relationship to our heavenly Father amongst other things.


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Bruce

 2014/8/31 9:24Profile
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 Re:

I listened to Alan Martin's sermon. And I say Amen. He spoke with clarity concerning the means by which we enter the New Covenant. It is by His Spirit that we recognize His covenant with us.

Another point I found encouraging is that Pastor Martin used the OT to illustrate the New Covenant. More than 2/3 of the sermon was spent in Ezekiel and Joshua.

And finally Pastor Martin asks..."Do you believe that Christ was raised from the dead" repeatedly...and Martin was not speaking of remembering a bible verse, he was speaking to the point of do you know Christ? If he was not resurrected then no one would know Christ. So when one comes to know Christ one will know with certainty that Christ was resurrected...


Good teaching....


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Jeff Marshalek

 2014/9/2 13:36Profile
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 Re:

I have listened to the sermon given by Zac Poonen, with some effort, I hope to cover various parts of his teaching. I will cover a little bit here and a little bit there. I will try to present his thoughts as accurately as possible without having to transcribe his entire sermon.


Pastor Poonen begins by comparing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant. He states that because the heart could not be changed by the Law of Moses, Israel's hearts remainded hard. Thus the men of the OT had testimonies which reflected this unchanged heart. Poonen then goes on to teach that the New Covenant differs in that God promises to change the once hard heart into a soft heart. And that this is essense of the New Covenant.


There is some confusion in the way Poonen teaches these precepts. We know first, that the purpose of the Law given to Moses, was to confine all under sin. Poonen does not acknowledge this precept given to us in Scripture.

Secondly, Poonen teaches that all who lived before the day of Pentecost did not have a heart which sought God continuously. Poonen states that all of Israel failed to live a consistent life of obeying and seeking God.


My observation of Poonen's teaching is this...he does not understand or is not familiar with the OT. Throughout the OT there are testimonies of most who reject God, but there is on the other hand, continual testimony given of a "remanent" that does not have a hardened heart.


Based on Poonen's teaching, how would he explain away the testimony of a man who wrote Psalm 119?


Consider this...read Psalm 119 and contemplate for yourself. Listen to this sermon, be a Berean, How does Poonen's teaching align or misinterpret the Scritpures.






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Jeff Marshalek

 2014/9/3 12:20Profile
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 Re:

The next point...Poonen states that the heart of all the OT men are hard and then he begins to give examples one by one. The above transcription is about Elijah.


I have transcribed a section of Poonen teaching at the 5 minute mark...Poonen says:

"What I want to say is that is the experience of an old covenant person. It is the experience of a man whose heart is hard. It is the same with all these men of God. You find Elijah up on the mountain top, fighting against 850 false prophets. Bringing fire down from heaven. And the next chapter you read him running away by the threat of a woman, depressed, going to the mountain, and saying to the Lord, “Take away my life, I’ve had enough.” And then he is encouraged and goes back into the ministry again."





Look closely to what he says...Elijah's heart is hard and therefore he runs from the threat of a woman...


First, Scripture states that one who has a hard heart does not hear God. One who has a hard heart does not obey God. One who has a hard heart does not repent for his actions. Does the testimony of Elijah support the notion that Elijah has a hard heart? I think it is very clear that the truth is just the opposite.

Secondly is Poonen's depiction of Elijah's "running away by the threat of a woman" an accurate account of the Scriptures? Imagine a person who might be listening to this teaching, and not knowing the full account, how would this individual view Elijah's reaction to the threat he encountered from Jezabel. Why does Poonen teach this way?



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Jeff Marshalek

 2014/9/3 21:37Profile
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 Re:

I recommend you read The Better Covenant by Ron Bailey. You will go a long ways before you find clearer teaching on the New Covenant than this. You can find it on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The%20Better%20covenant%20ron%20bailey


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Allan Halton

 2014/9/3 21:59Profile
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 Re:

Hello everyone hope you all are having a wonderful night.

Rookie, I don't know that much about Pastor Poonen, but I do know a little about what the Bible says. I wonder what his response would be about Enoch. I don't say this out of arrogance or with malicious intent but rather to see how he could read the Bible and think that.

Enoch was perfect, His testimony was that he pleased God! By the grace of God I pray that I might have the same. Was his heart hard? Would God translate a hard hearted man so that he shouldn't even taste death?

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Love everyone, and God bless


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Elijah

 2014/9/3 23:11Profile
trxx
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Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 85
ON Canada

 Re: New Covenant

Thank you ADisciple for that recommendation. I followed your link + then found a link to Ron Bailey's blog where it is possible to post a thought or question. Naturally I will do so. Many thanks, eh? fellow Canadian


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Bruce

 2014/9/4 20:06Profile





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