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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is Everything that God Allows "Good?"

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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5273
NC, USA

 Is Everything that God Allows "Good?"

A comment along these lines was made on another thread and I didn't want to hijack it so decided to start a new one.

So, is everything that God allows good?

I'll throw my initial two cents in by stating absolutely not, but I am curious about other viewpoints.

I think the discussion will probably head in a few directions, namely how do we define "good," short-term vs. long term perspectives, and God's sovereignty and what that means.


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Todd

 2014/8/20 6:30Profile
davym
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Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 319


 Re: Is Everything that God Allows "Good?"



I don't think everything God allows is good. Good is good and evil is evil, however it must be a good thing that evil exists otherwise God wouldn't allow it.

David


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David

 2014/8/20 7:38Profile
TMK
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 Re:

Hey David--

I am not sure but I think you just said that evil was good.

Please clarify.


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Todd

 2014/8/20 8:01Profile
davym
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Joined: 2007/5/22
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 Re:

I think it's best explained by the story of Joseph.



Genesis 50:20 (NASB)

20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.


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David

 2014/8/20 8:51Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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 Re:

I agree 100% that God can turn the evil schemes of men (like Haman) around for good.

But that is subtly different than saying the evil was good.


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Todd

 2014/8/20 11:17Profile
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
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 Re:

Depends on what level you look.

Is it good to kill mice?

For us, yes. For the mouse, no way.

Is it good to clear land for our own use? For us, yes. For plants and animals, not so much.

Is it good for sharks to eat. For them, yes. For the surfer dude, nope.


And this is such a vulgar representation but

The Lord does things that are seemingly not good for us, but result in the glory of His name.

Pro 16:4  The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Isa 45:7  I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.'

Lam 3:37-38  Who is he who speaks and it comes to pass, When the Lord has not commanded it?  Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That woe and well-being proceed?

 2014/8/20 17:01Profile
dfella
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Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 293
Canton, Michigan

 Re:

That depends on which side of the fence you are on. For Gods children ALL things that God would allow would be considered good.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28)


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David Fella

 2014/8/20 17:27Profile
TMK
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 Re:

Yes dfella but again that verse does not say that evil is good. It says that God can work things out for good.

I think we have to be willing to state that some things that happen even to Christians are evil. They are not rendered good just because God can work through them. And we (at least I) must be willing to state that God is not the author of evil.

To use an extreme but certainly not unheard of examples, the act of a Christian child being raped by a pervert or beheaded by ISIS is just plain evil, EVEN IF God somehow chooses to bring good out of it. God was not the author of a child being raped or beheaded (at least not the God I serve). He can graciously use it somehow but he does not cause it. And the fact that He allows it does not make it a good thing.

I am not sure why Christians feel compelled to say that just because God allows something then that means the thing allowed is good.




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Todd

 2014/8/20 21:48Profile
dfella
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 Re:

TMK,I agree that the verse does not say that evil is good and I also agree that bad things that happen to Christians can be a result of evil (the other can be chastening). Like persecution, suffering, martyrdom, Job's trials, the beheading of John the Baptist.

Evil is evil and a result of mans rebellion and fall in the garden, which I also agree that God is not the author of.

When people post questions I do ponder them and really want to answer not how I would, but, how would God answer the question or thought. I based my answer on several things as I thought about the question, There is none good but God, God is sovereign and nothing can happen nor can the devil afflict unless it is approved or allowed by God.

I have suffered through various trials in my own life, some because of my own doing and choices, and some for the name of Christ. When I as a Christian look back on the evil that happened, I see that God was able to bring good out of the evil. It does not mean the evil is good, but the fact God allowed it in my life, I see that as good, because God is good.

The Psalmist speaks of his own afflictions as a good thing stating before he was afflicted he went astray, but now has he kept Gods commandments. He even says that it was good he was afflicted that he would learn Gods statutes.

I realize that these examples are different than the ones you used and I agree with you, but at the end of the day, if we are His and we look to Him in faith good is the end result, if we are not His, then evil wins.

You said,

I am not sure why Christians feel compelled to say that just because God allows something then that means the thing allowed is good.

Whether what God allows in our lives as being good or bad really depends on us, not Him. In the verse that came to mind that I quoted earlier says ALL things work together for good. All things include evil things, suffering, persecution, death, murder, rape.... and I believe that they can be rendered good as we look to Him in faith.

I appreciate the question and thought and I am thankful because they challenge me to ponder, pray, and search the scriptures that I might grow thereby.


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David Fella

 2014/8/21 0:26Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5273
NC, USA

 Re:

dfella-

your clarification helps. I appreciate it, and can't say I disagree with what you have written.


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Todd

 2014/8/21 6:28Profile





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