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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Which Commandments?

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Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

by RogerB

Quote:
Looked at many times before.

The story of the 10 lepers comes to mind. One turned back and gave thanks. He was a gentile. Gentiles can't go pay what Moses required. He would have been tossed out. Neither can they participate in the old covenant even today, which was for the the Israelites. They are on the outer court of that system, outside looking in hoping for their day.

Moses didn't go into the promise land. That's a picture of something greater. His system was to end. We enter the kingdom by faith and faith alone. Caleb had faith.

The old covenant was the 10 commandments. They also had physical earthly promises. I can't find those promises in the new covenant. I see us as strangers in the earth. After all we died to the law in baptism. Earth and it's things are not ours anymore. We belong to the kingdom of God.

When Jesus speaks in the gospels he says "You have heard"..
He speaks of things from the old package. Now the focus is on an entirely different thing. Can't put new wine in old bottles.

Be careful of what one adds to the Sabbath day. It doesn't say you must attend church. I read in the law where three times a year you shall you appear before the Lord, and they are feast days.

You can look at the transfiguration where Moses, Elijah and Jesus appeared. The voice from heaven said, "Hear my son".
Didn't say listen to Moses.



Recently I've been trying to dig deep into this subject largely due to the other thread about what Scriptures we are under the authority of today.

I have come to agree with a view that largely agrees with RogerB's post above. I'd like to share here a few links to articles that I believe make a strong case for this view. This view sees the Mosaic Law/System/Covenant as completely obsolete in terms of being binding as per Hebrews 8:13. Yet this view also sees the Old Testament as containing timeless moral laws or principles that have always been binding and are still applicable today since we see them repeated in the NT.

http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/OTeSources/05-Deuteronomy/Text/Articles/Hays-ApplyingLaw-BS.htm

http://thecripplegate.com/schreiner-the-threefold-division-and-the-law-of-god/

http://thecripplegate.com/evangelism-and-the-law-of-god/


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Oracio

 2014/8/16 13:51Profile
dfella
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Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan

 Re:

None of what the scriptures say is possible without loving God and one another from the heart. We keep the law and commandments of God because as Brothagary said that God has written them on our hearts.

We also keep the law by faith because we are saved and justified.

Many use grace as a license to continue in sin saying we are no longer under the law but grace, however Gods grace enables us to keep the law. They also say grace is a covering for sin, grace does not cover sin, only the blood of Christ can cover sin. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid.

He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked. (1 John 2:4-6)

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20)

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31)

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:17-26)

Should we as Christians attend church?

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:41-47)

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. (Hebrews 10:24-25)

And upon the first day of the week (SUNDAY), when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. (Acts 20:7)

Upon the first day of the week (SUNDAY) let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. (1 Corinthians 16:2)





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David Fella

 2014/8/16 15:33Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

thats ballanced post dfella Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31)


paul is acual saying we establish the law given by moses by faith

it is cystalised and solidafied in our hearts the righteous requirments of the tora the law

with respect brother blain that is what the apostal john was talking about


but was also is interestion that the jewish christians were actual aiming at keeping the whole law and the feasts and cirumsision which goes beoned the righeous requiments of the law and that was fine according to the apostals as long as they didnt believe the were being justafied by doing so most of the apostals that were teachers of the jews were doing this them selfs and obviiouly taught this ,,im asuming tho the death penelity and eye for and eye was not taught in the jewish side of the church due to jesus laws super seding and canceling certaint laws like oths ands love you enemys

now obviously there will be difference in gentil christians on what the righeous requiments of the law are ,,,,like some go as far as saying woman should not were pants nor christians should not get tatoos ectra ,, i wonder if head courvering for woman comes from the old law ,,im not sure


but that would be worth another topic ,,


what are the righeous requiments of the tora law

can i get a jesus tatoo to glorafie god or some holy scripture tatooted on my forarm ,,or am i breaking the righeous requiments of the law ,,becasue the law says ,ill shal not mark my body like the pagans do

i personly go with the no tatoos laws

whats your thoughs fourm

 2014/8/16 19:33Profile









 Re:

Brethren a rule in interpreting a text such as 1John 5:3 is to look at the context. Does a similar word or thought appear anywhere else in a woman in the book.

In this case the text in question says His commandments are not burdensome. Another place where the word commandments appears is 1John 3:23. The commandments in question are believing in the name of the Son of God and loving one another.

Please consider 1 John 3:23.

This is his commandment that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.

And then please consider 1 John 5:3,

but this is the love of God that we keep his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome.

Brethren the commandments that are not burdensome are belief in Jesus and loving one another.

The context of the book interprets the verse in question. Not the theology.

Blaine

 2014/8/16 19:53
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

by bearmaster

Quote:
Brethren a rule in interpreting a text such as 1John 5:3 is to look at the context. Does a similar word or thought appear anywhere else in a woman in the book.

In this case the text in question says His commandments are not burdensome. Another place where the word commandments appears is 1John 3:23. The commandments in question are believing in the name of the Son of God and loving one another.

Please consider 1 John 3:23.

This is his commandment that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.

And then please consider 1 John 5:3,

but this is the love of God that we keep his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome.

Brethren the commandments that are not burdensome are belief in Jesus and loving one another.

The context of the book interprets the verse in question. Not the theology.

Blaine


Blaine, I agree with that but I think the question remains, what does that mean and what does that look like in today's society? For example, those who call themselves gay Christians will say that they are keeping those commandments and try to justify their lifestyle. So do many others who practice and try to justify other kinds of blatant sins. I've heard these three commands quoted over and over when witnessing on the streets by those living open rebellion against God (believe in Jesus, love God, love your neighbor as yourself).

Again I will point out that we need specific instruction because of our fallenness and God has graciously given those specifics to us in both the Old and New Testaments. And again, if all we needed to know was those simple commands God would not have deemed it necessary to give us so much God-breathed scripture with so many specific instructions and commands.


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Oracio

 2014/8/16 20:18Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

Blaine what we can do as Christians is to use one letter like johns to go against another letter say of Paul ,,we must keep it one context we cant preach one letter to nullify another teaching

Jesus is just emphasizing those to commandments as focal points ,like he did early with the to greatest

faith in him was important to be able to enter in to fellowship god the father and god the god the son
and loving one another Jews and gentiles in fellowship was the expression of god love for us

brother none of the commands are burdensome because he has written them on our heart and given us his spirit ,,we become a man Father his own heart

but when a Christian backslides in to sin ,,his spirit is quenched and our hearts become dull,,so there in lies the important of the others commands to convict and bring repentance

saying to the back slider or sinner who has seard his conscience , just love god and love your neighbors doesnt bring conviction of sin ,,,this is what the law is precisely for ,,as Paul said if it is used lawfully it is a good thing

blessings

 2014/8/16 20:36Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

by brothagary

Quote:
saying to the back slider or sinner who has seard his conscience , just love god and love your neighbors doesnt bring conviction of sin ,,,this is what the law is precisely for ,,as Paul said if it is used lawfully it is a good thing


Amen, excellent way of putting it! Ah, but I can almost hear the objection, what about if you're not in a backslidden or unregenerate state? Don't you just need those simple commandments if you're walking in the Spirit? I say no, because you still have the flesh that wants to rear its ugly head and attack at every single opportunity. And the devil and the world are also great enemies that want to allure you in various ways, and you are still liable to stumble, thus the need for detailed instruction and exhortation on life and godliness from the Word of God.


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Oracio

 2014/8/16 20:55Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

yea i wont disagree with that .....jesus said the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak

Jesus used other commands to Battle Satan didnt he ,,not just the two greatest commands

man shall not live by bread alone
yea shall not tempt god


that really settels it if Jesus used extra commands to ward of Satan and boost is faith shale not we do the same

isnt that whatit all about,,, what jesus said and did
amen and amen

 2014/8/16 21:19Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2007


 Re: Which Commandments?


1 Cor. 14:34-37 Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for it is not allowed to them to speak, but to be in subjection, as also the Law says. But if they desire to learn anything, let them question their husbands at home; for it is a shame for a woman to speak in an assembly. Or did the Word of God go out from you? Or did it reach only to you? If anyone thinks to be a prophet, or a spiritual one, let him recognize the things I write to you, that they are a command of the Lord.

2 Peter 3:1,2 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle, in which by reminder I stir up your sincere mind to remember the words having been spoken before by the holy prophets, and the command of the Lord and Savior by us, the apostles.

 2014/8/17 17:08Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

yea savana moses was the greastest prophert

paul used the law of moses to bolster his comand about woman being in subjesction to there husbanes

 2014/8/18 2:46Profile





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