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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Anyone ever read the Talmud?

Yesterday I began reading a book written Elizabeth Dilling in 1964, The Plot Against Christianity. The book is now know as: The Jewish Religion, It's Influence Today.


I had never considered this before, that the Jews of today still follow the Talmud. The book and it's traditions which Jesus condemned in His day. I read about 10 paragraphs in various places in the Talmud and was totally dismayed by this content.

Dilling sugests that the Jews historically have been the driving force behind humanism.

Any thoughts?


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2014/8/10 10:13Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2735
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Anyone ever read the Talmud?

Quote:
Dilling sugests that the Jews historically have been the driving force behind humanism



I have not read the Talmud but I would agree that in natural Israel we often see the pinnacle of what flesh can accomplish. Is it not true that in so many areas - science, entertainment, business, etc... - that many Jews seem to excel above others. Perhaps, in part, this is the reason that so many hate the Jews, envy.

Art Katz said the following about the Jews, of whom he was one;

"That is why the scriptures in Ezekiel 37 speak of a necessary death and resurrection for Israel. God waits for a certain acknowledgment from the whole house of Israel: “Our bones have dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off” (v.11). The Nazi Holocaust did not bring this ultimate confession from us as a whole nation. The Jewish people are entrenched optimists, ultimate humanists, an exemplary people. They are mankind at its best. They are man in all of his hopes, his ambitions, his strength and his self-assurance. Their hope in man and in themselves must be brought down into the place of utter hopelessness before they can bless all the families of the earth."

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2014/8/10 11:37Profile









 Re: Anyone ever read the Talmud?

Jeff, as a Jew who follows Jesus, I have never read the Talmud, which are, as i'm sure you know, commentaries on the Bible from various rabbi's.

when I was a child, 7 to 13, we stayed primarily in the Five Books of Moses, we also studied of the ancient Kingdom of Israel as history, with a HEAVY dose of Zionism and the Holocaust study thrown in.

I loved it as a child, those were good days, God became very real to me, and unlike those poor catholic kids, who get bludgeoned with fear and guilt, I never thought of God as Anyone, but a Loving Father, rich in mercy and love...even though 6 million Jews had been murdered by the hitlerites. I always thought those dear souls were the price to be paid, that the Nation of Israel be once more.

as far as Dilling, I haven't read the book....probably because when I see this: "The Plot Against Christianity"

"The Jewish Religion, It's Influence Today"

and this thesis: "Dilling sugests that the Jews historically have been the driving force behind humanism."

I smell sulfur.

anytime I read: "the Jews historically have been the driving force behind"..(insert some ungodly meme here)...I just roll my eyes, and think, "whats new?...just another Jew hater"...I don't even get angry, as God is very much control, because if any nation or people's group desires to kill off the last 13 million of us off, the Israel of God will turn this world into a smoking radioactive ruin.

its a new world for the Kittim, Jews with nukes.

 2014/8/10 13:34









 Re:

Neil do you speak of the Samson Option?

Bear.

 2014/8/10 14:28
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

Quote:
I loved it as a child, those were good days, God became very real to me, and unlike those poor catholic kids, who get bludgeoned with fear and guilt, I never thought of God as Anyone, but a Loving Father, rich in mercy and love...


Sounds like you grasped the Old Testament better than many Pharisees ;)

I hope this doesn't derail the thread too much - how did you come to know Yeshua Ha'Mashiach?

 2014/8/10 15:46Profile









 yuehan

Quote:

I hope this doesn't derail the thread too much - how did you come to know Yeshua Ha'Mashiach?



it was God's pleasure to crush me.

I was trading large amounts of crude oil, for myself and friends very successfully, and one day, I put the pedal to the metal, and lost an LARGE amount of money...everything.

I felt my two courses of action could be A. eat a pistol (that was just an offhand option that I could use if I went really mental)...or B...the preferred option, get on the phone to various drug dealers, and go on a four, or five day drug holiday, then clean up the mess. I was definitely on the banks of the Jabbok River.

I had one impediment to this, I had to take my dear 7 year old son to karate,which I felt wholly unsuitable to do, so I called his dear mother, and told her my suitation. She told me, not to look behind or ahead, but when I got scared to pray, "God please be with me" (Immanuel) and then she ordered, "Now go be a father, and take your son to karate" (if you knew her, she's a red headed Irish_American lass, and no fun to argue with...I didn't have a leg to stand on)

so I did, and I leaned on this heaven sent pray so so much, and I could feel His Spirit drawing near as I drew near, so I asked her, "do you know of a CHURCH I could go to"...I didn't know WHY...I was just led by the Holy Spirit, as God was pleased to gradually reveal His Son to and in me.

She took me to an AoG Church in SoCal, I listened to the sermon, went home, the next week I went back, rushed up to the pastor, now a dear brother and mentor, and said, "I wanna be saved"...he smiled, said, "why don't you listen to the sermon, and if feel the same way, we'll pray together on the altar."

we prayed together on the altar that day....that was May 2002, and I believe 99% of the mornings since I am in the Word and prayer...its a precious time of day, and there's a term, "eternal assurance" that I have felt ever since that month of May, 2002. I never have ever doubted the Father, nor the Son, Messiah Jesus, Their Word is Truth, It is Light and It is The Way.

The Way, It is how I refer to what is termed Christianity, The Way, just like in those beautiful days chronicled in Acts.

 2014/8/10 21:27









 Bear

Quote:
Neil do you speak of the Samson Option?

Bear.



yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Samson_option

 2014/8/10 21:35
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re: yuehan

Thanks Neil for sharing your testimony of God's goodness =)

 2014/8/11 6:30Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Neil wrote:

"Jeff, as a Jew who follows Jesus, I have never read the Talmud, which are, as i'm sure you know, commentaries on the Bible from various rabbi's."


First, thank you for sharing your testimony.

I watched a PBS special last night that was created by Simon Schama, The Story of the Jews. I only saw the last two hours of the 5 hour video. In the last two hours it covered from the 1700's up to today. In that time, due to the constant persecutions, the progroms, etc, it seems that many in Eastern Europe began to look to socialism as a means to escape this persecution. Up until the last week I had never heard this story. Yet reflecting back on the Fiddler On The Roof, this was one of the main themes of this movie.


I have learned that there were a number of Jews that were instrumental in the overthrow of the Czarist Russia. Yet as always before, the Gentiles continued the progroms.

I do not want to offend you in any way, but not all Jews are Jews. I do not have any idea as to how many Jews base their lives on the Talmud.

Do you have any knowledge of how many in Israel focus on the OT versus Talmud?


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2014/8/11 12:36Profile









 my dear brother Jeff

oh brother, you did NOT offend me at all! you wrote:

Quote:
but not all Jews are Jews.



oh! tell me about it! I got to see the worst of my tribe on the trading floor of the Chicago Merc, but there were Irish, Greeks, Italians joining in on this hideous "worship" of the golden calf, it was abysmal, the way men just worship money!....and I didn't even KNOW Jesus at that time, I just knew I didn't worship money, I didn't break ONE rule on that trading floor, or "steal"...guys stole millions with just the swipe of a pencil.

now, i'm NOT some perfect guy, but thanks be to God, He buried in my heart, two attributes, a man must always strive to be a tzadik...a righteous man....AND a man must always have a code of HONOR.......now have I veered at times?....yes, but God, if He loves will always slap you down, chastise you, discipline you, whatever word you choose.

I loved to trade, corn, wheat, hogs and crude oil, but God got me OFF that trading floor, I praise Him.....anyway.

what I do know about orthodox Yeshiva's is that they concentrate on the Talmud, even memorizing vast portions of it, having long arguments about what this rabbi says , or that rabbi says......tedious, BUT I know they pray, and as a LOT of modern day Israel is secular, I believe these prayers ascend to the Throne and cover the Nation with Yahweh's Protection....and fill the soldiers and airmen of the IDF with skill and bravery.

But in the yeshiva's I don't THINK, they concentrate on parts of the OT, we might.....IF, they really ATE of Isaiah's prophecy, or Jeremiah's prophecy....how could they deny that Messiah HAS come, and will come again?...the Four Suffering Servant Songs in Isaiah?...the Book of Consolation in Jeremiah, chapters 30 thru 33, that contains the Basis of the New Covenant? (Chapter 31)

How can one deny Messiah?...i'd LOVE to tell them, the orthodox Jews, that God sent His Son down, so that ALL THE NATIONS could be grafted into The Vine...."nations", meaning Gentiles....don't they deserve to be able, in Faith, to nourish off the Same Vine we Jews do?.....but to put the Law, the 613 laws on their backs wasn't His Plan, because OBVIOUSLY, its not working with us Jews, so He sent His Son, Yeshua, Jesus, to be the Last Passover Lamb, and the Blood of This Lamb, would cleanse all sin...instead just one day as Yom Kippur, everyday is Yom Kippur....but, imo, after 315 AD, things got confused IN ROME.....and some of your forefathers went out on Crusades and started killing Jews "in the Name of Jesus", so that beautiful Name became identified with murder and death at the hands of rapacious gentiles.

that's why its SO HARD to tell ANY orthodox Jew, Messiahs Name is Jesus, they get frightened and angry, they know history...I even had an elder at an Aog church tell me, once I accepted Jesus, i'm no longer a "Jew". You tell any God fearing Jew that?....they'd rather die, or die fighting.

I've written enough ..for now, Jeff, I love your posts, Blaine the Bear too, (he probably thinks i'm some warmongering Jewish nut job...i'm laughing) and I love brother Frank appolus's, posts and poetry....that dear brother with his wonderful Scottish brogue has ministered to me, over the phone, so lovingly...I can never repay. God bless you all, neil

 2014/8/11 14:40





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