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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Did Jesus Mean This Literally?

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 Re:

So TMK how would He have protected that child?

Bearnaster

 2014/8/8 19:55
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
If Jesus was near a child and a man with a sword intended to behead that child, I have no doubt whatsoever that he would have done what he could to protect the child.

How could a person NOT think that?



This is a fictitious dilemma. A person does NOT think this way if s/he lacks any power advantage – such as a weapon, status, size, etc.

But this is difficult to comprehend if we’ve been shaped in a culture of power (the most powerful nation in the world, yes?). We aren’t aware of how many power advantages we have, to deploy them whenever we sense threats to our stability! When Jesus taught about loving your enemies – he was talking to his followers who had NO power advantage – those under the Romans, religious powers, etc.

I believe that to truly understand what it means to “love your enemy” we have to visit the lives of believers who had NO power advantages. Read testimonies by those undergoing persecution – where even if you did have a weapon, you would dare not use it for protection because the powers that be would destroy you in a flash. Prison testimonies are so insightful because you can see the tremendous power of love - a totally different kind of power.

One more thought: Consider how people instinctively respond to someone asserting power over them – be that a weapon, controlling, dominating behaviors, etc? That person senses threat and reacts defensively – fight or flight. That person cannot allow himself to be vulnerable or honest. The dominant person has created an unsafe relational context. It's NOT an invitation to lay down a weapon.

Power is NEVER the way we advance the kingdom of God – and that is our calling.

Diane


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Diane

 2014/8/8 20:23Profile









 Re:

Diane thank you for your insightful post. Very thought provoking.

Blaine

 2014/8/8 20:31
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5255
NC, USA

 Re:

I still say that Jesus was not talking about or expecting a believer to allow their family to be slaughtered.

If you can show me where he says that please do and I will stand down.

Jesus would have protected the child in my hypothetical any way He could. He would not have simply stood by and watched.


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Todd

 2014/8/8 21:19Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5255
NC, USA

 Re:

How is it loving to your family to allow them to be killed or whatever if it is in your power to stop it?


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Todd

 2014/8/8 21:20Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

brothers and sisters I agree with these two articles on this topic as I believe they provide solid biblical answers for Christians:

What does the Bible say about killing in war? Is killing in war a sin?:
http://www.gotquestions.org/killing-in-war.html


"What does the Bible say about self-defense?":
http://www.gotquestions.org/self-defense.html

During this huge crisis hour in Iraq I thank God that some relief and protection is finally coming to those being persecuted. May we continue to pray for strength and mercy for these dear people and for God to restrain this fiercely demonic force.


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Oracio

 2014/8/8 21:28Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Romans 13:3-5 also came to mind here, which those articles did not reference:

"3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake."

So God appoints certain "moral" governing authorities for the restraining of evil in this world. This is something good for the human race, without which there is total anarchy and unrestrained bloodshed.


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Oracio

 2014/8/8 21:52Profile









 Re:The Sermon on the Mount as Kingdom Living

It has been said that the Sermon on the Mount were Jesus`s instructions on how we are to live in His kingdom. His kingdom is a rule if His Spirit in our hearts. We live out His kingdom reality in this present world.

Either we take the Sermon on the Mount at face value as commands of Jesus to be lived out or we reject it. But in so rejecting the Sermon on the Mount we reject Christ Himself. For He, The Word, cannot be separated from His spoken Word.

Do We try to explain Mat.5:28 away with emotional what ifs. Here Jesus says looking upona woman with lust in one's heart is committing adultery. The statement is pretty straightforward.

So then are Mat. 5:38-48 any less straight forward. Taken at face value we are to live our enemies, not resist our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us.

Now I am sure that all in the forum will agree that looking at a woman with lust in our hearts is wrong. And we wound agree with Jesus that this adultery. No what if scenerios.

Can we agree that Jesus meant what He said that we are to love our enemies? Can we agree that Jesus meant what He said that we are not to resist an evil person? Can we agree that Jesus meant what He said that we are to pray for those who persecute us?

If one cannot agree to the above then their issue is with Jesus Himself.

Bearnaster




 2014/8/8 22:45









 Re:

Yes Oracio, to govern a nation, God has instituted governments. This is His means so that we do not fall into anarchy.

However governments do not have the right to invade sovereign nations and destabilize their countries. This is what happened when the U S invaded Iraq. We bear the responsibility of what is happening in Iraq. If we had left Saddam Hassan alone there would be no Islamic Caliphate slaughtering Christians.

But the grievous thing was that 5 prominent evangelical leaders encouraged Bush to invade Iraq. This us documented in my earlier post regarding the Land Letter. Thus the American Church bears the responsibility of the tragedy that is unfolding in Iraq.

Somehow the teaching of Jesus about loving your enemies has gotten lost.

Bearmaster.

 2014/8/8 22:57
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

So bear, what would you say about Hitler and Nazi Germany? Was it wrong to go to war against him to stop the massive genocide of Jews and others and the taking over of the world by him?


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Oracio

 2014/8/8 23:16Profile





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