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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Did Jesus Mean This Literally?

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 Re:

Havok,

So bro don't you believe we are sanctified by grace. :):):)

Blaine

 2014/8/11 18:04
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Brother, I love you and I am greatful for the passion you have for Jesus and the persecuted believers; however I am asking you not to cut us off just because we disagree. This is a really important issue that ties in directly with this discussion.

 2014/8/11 18:05Profile









 Re:

Oracio,

I believe the royal law is articulated in Mat.21:34-40. Simply stated love of God and love of neighbor. Don't have time to type it out.

Also interesting as we are talking about loving our enemies.

Now that you alluded to James. What do you think he means by the law of liberty in that same chapter.

Blaine

 2014/8/11 18:17
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

I am set apart to God through the blood of Jesus Christ.


The royal law has hanging on it the law and the prophets.

 2014/8/11 18:30Profile









 Re:

Havok,

Not trying to cut you off bro. But thought we had covered this in my other thread. But oh well.

You and Oracio are focussing on the Old Covenant law being restated in the New Covenant.

But brothers remember the dynamic of the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit.

Consider Rom.7:6. Paul says we have been released from the law so that we serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Paul further developed the above thought 2 Cor.3:6 when he says he is a minister of the new covenant of the Spirit. He says the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. All on 2 Cor.3 contrast the letter of the Old Covenant to the Spirit of the New Covenant which is far greater.

Also Gal.5:18 says if we are ked by the Spirit we are not under the law. That is why when Paul list the fruit of the Spirit he says against these characteristics which the Spirit works out in our lives there is no law.

Blaine

 2014/8/11 18:32









 Re:

Brother a been a good spirited discussion. But I got to stand down. Maybe we can pick up again.

But let me leave you with this question. If we have the indwelling presence of Christ Himself living within us by His Spirit, why do we need the law if Sinai?

Love you both. Gotta catch bus home. Been chilin at Panera Bread.

Blaine :):):)


 2014/8/11 18:41
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

But your definition of "the letter" causes the entire OT to be excluded as authoritative. When Paul said all scripture is given...what Books was he talking about.

 2014/8/11 18:41Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2035
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Oracio,

I believe the royal law is articulated in Mat.21:34-40. Simply stated love of God and love of neighbor. Don't have time to type it out.

Also interesting as we are talking about loving our enemies.

Now that you alluded to James. What do you think he means by the law of liberty in that same chapter.

Blaine



"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength."-Deuteronomy 6:5

"You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord."-Leviticus 19:18

Again, the moral law of God is reinforced in the NT, not abolished.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/8/11 18:48Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2035
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Consider Rom.7:6. Paul says we have been released from the law so that we serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.



Brother, what that is saying is that we are no longer under the power and curse of the law but under the grace of Christ, as Paul had already stated in Romans 6:14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." He says the same thing in Gal. 5:18, "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

But Paul goes on to say in Romans 6:15, "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!"

Paul says in Romans 7:7 that sin is transgression of God's moral law as revealed in the Ten Commandments, for he says he would not have known that coveting is sin unless he realized that the law said, "You shall not covet".

Paul says in Romans 7:14 that the moral law of God is good and spiritual, and in verse 22 he says that he delights in the moral law of God, clearly referring to the moral law revealed in the OT and written on our hearts (which are one and the same moral law of God).

Quote:
Paul further developed the above thought 2 Cor.3:6 when he says he is a minister of the new covenant of the Spirit. He says the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. All on 2 Cor.3 contrast the letter of the Old Covenant to the Spirit of the New Covenant which is far greater.



In 2Cor. 3 Paul points out the distinction between the ministries of the Old and New Covenants. In the Old Covenant there was a certain fear and a pronouncement of judgment upon all who broke God's law, with not much mention of grace. But in the New Covenant we have the grace of God through Jesus Christ and are not under the curse and power of God's law. In 2Cor. 3:5-6 Paul is saying that the mere "external reading and keeping" of the law (which the Pharisees emphasized) kills. But we are still bound to obey God's moral law through the power of the Spirit, for we see this clearly throughout the NT.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/8/11 21:06Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

you guy are forgetting an important verse ,that a certain apostle said ,children obey your parents in the lord for the is right ,,honer you father in mother with is the first commandment with a promise that you may live long on the earth Paul i think was quoting strait from the ten commandments and saying that the promise made is still available and and the command binding ,,,,that verse alone shows Paul's understand that the moral law is still alive

i was thing about this half the day ,,

many many Christians like a sis Dian have made the mistake by thinking the new covenent command to love our enemies was an old testament but it was the Jesus who canceled the old testament law of eye for and eye as Paul said aroused sin in his members through vengeance ,that Jesus completely cancels in place of mercy ,he changed it to love your enemy's it was a new command ,,Jesus also canceled out swearing others and changed the divorce requirements ,,,these are not interpretations of the law in theses instances but new legislations tho it is still true the whole law of Moses hangs on the two great commandments ,,love you emenys was new ,and there for does not mean and has never meant love you neighbor this big mistake cause people to elevate love you enemies to the same position as love you neighbor ,

you see god is not a hypocrite and does not contradict him self when he says in time past to love your neighbor as your self and eye for and eye to wards your enemy's ,,if love you neighbor means to love your enemy,,god would have caused his children to stone and kill there neighbor ,making Them break the commandment to love you neighbor ,,and the first command to love god as well ,,,but thats not what happened gods revaluations of mercy and grace happened so men were to lern what that meant

 2014/8/12 4:36Profile





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