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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Did Jesus Mean This Literally?

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 Re:

But then brethren as I advocated in another thread the New Testament or the New Covenant writings are the greater revelation. Heb. 1:1 establishes that in these end times God has spoken through His Son.

Jesus Christ is the ultimate revelation of God. Thus we live by His teachings and those of His apostles. We do not live by the law of Moses but by the law of Christ. His law clearly laid out in the Sermon on the Mount.

When He said `You were told` but `I say ` Jesus is clearly establishing His right to rule as King in our hearts.

When He said to seek first His kingdom and righteousness He is implying kingdom living in the righteousness as laid out in the Sermon on the Mount. This is the righteousness that the Spirit of righteousness writes on our hearts. Thus it is possible to.live out the kingdom reality of Mat.5 thru 7. This is why I posed the question can a Spirit-filled Christian live out the reality of the Sermon on the Mount.

Blaine

 2014/8/11 17:03
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Brother,

We need to rightly divide the word of truth on this. Jesus Christ is indeed the greatest revelation that there ever has been or ever will be. The OT law can't touch Him in regards to that. But we generate a false dichotomy when we divide the OT into the "old covenant" and the New Testament into the "New coventant".

The dividing line is not as clear as the blank page in your bible that separates the Old and New Testaments.

And again, I want to stress that while the entirety of the old covenant is contained within the Old Testament, the Old testament is not comprised entirely of the Old Covenant.

That tree does indeed contain apples, but those apples are NOT the entire tree. See what I mean?

Jesus Christ did not come to obliterate the law. No. He came to fulfill it. Jesus is the greatest revelation and He is the revelation that sheds light on the point and purpose of the old covenant.

 2014/8/11 17:15Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2031
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

God's speaking to us through His Son in these last days and Jesus being the greatest revelation of God to mankind does not abolish the moral law of God that was preached through the prophets in the OT.

God's moral law is unchanging because God's righteous character is unchanging. Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever. The parts of the OT that are not binding on us today are the civil and ceremonial laws as they were all shadows pointing to Christ. But nowhere do we read of the moral laws revealed in the OT as merely a shadow, rather they are reinforced in the NT.

We cannot devalue the OT scriptures because they are filled with moral instruction that is very binding and applicable to us today.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/8/11 17:18Profile









 Re:

Oracio

Respectfully brother I disagree. The law at Sinai was given to Israel to show them their need for a Savior. Christ abrogated the law at the cross and gave us a new law to live by His Spirit.

In Col. 2:16-17, Paul tells His readers that no one is to judge them in regard to good, drink, a new moon or a Sabbath day. He says these things are a shadow if what is to come. But the substance belongs to Jesus.

In Heb.10:1 the writer tells us the law is only a shadow of what is to come.

I could go on and cite other scriptures. But Heb.8 shows that there is a distinction between the Old And New Covenant. And we are under the New Covenant. The Old Covenant has passed away. Paul developed this though in 2 Cor.3.

I could go on. But suffice to say the believer is riled by the indwelling Holy Spirit and not by the external code of Sinai.

Blaine

 2014/8/11 17:36









 Re:

Brethren I might add that Jew never made the distinction of the civil, ceremonial, and moral law. They looked up on the law as a complete covenant. A covenant that has passed away with the introduction of the New Covenant.

Blaine

 2014/8/11 17:39
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Brother,

But the Jews did divide the OT into 3 parts - The Law, The Prophets, and The writings.

Even to them the covenant was contained only in the Law.

 2014/8/11 17:50Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Also references to the old and new covenant are almost exclusively spoken of in the New Testament with regards to salvation by grace or salvation by works.

 2014/8/11 17:51Profile









 Re:

Brethren we can go around on the law in which case we should go to the thread I started a few days ago entitled Are Both Moses and Jesus Binding on the Believer.

But I wonder if we can redirect to Diane`s comment and question. She said we are called to be activists, not passivists. I agree. So how can we live out the reality of non resistance to evil and love of our enemy in this crooked depraved world?

Blaine

 2014/8/11 17:57









 Re:

Jesus says if we love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us we sons if our Father in heaven.

So what does He mean here?

Blaine

 2014/8/11 18:01
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2031
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

brother Blaine, then how do your interpret these verses from the NT,

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty."-James 2:8-12

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."-Romans 7:7-25

Those and other passages clearly teach that the moral law as revealed at Mt Sinai is certainly binding today even for Christians. But we are no longer under the ultimate judgment and curse of that law as those are who are outside of Christ. And we are now able to fulfill the moral law by the power of the indwelling Spirit. But there is no true dichotomy between NT moral law and OT moral law.

Regarding the Sabbath(which you point out from Col.2), it was ultimately fulfilled in Christ as our ultimate rest from our own works. But there is also another principle behind it that is also applicable to us today, namely, the need for us to rest at least one day in the week. That is how God designed our bodies to work.

But God's moral law is not only seen in the Ten Commandments but also in other parts of scripture. The Ten Commandments are the principle list of God's moral law revealed in the OT.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/8/11 18:02Profile





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