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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
See... now we're headed into waters that I admit I'm not real comfortable trying to navigate. I'm all for learning! I understand the basics... but perhaps maybe someone with a little more knowledg about this can jump in and help us out...



Do you have plastocene over there? It is a rubbery modelling substance much loved by children, but not their mothers who have to dig it out of the carpet! When I read the above I got a picture of my younger brother aged about 3.(over 50 years ago now) Plastocene comes in 7 vivid colours, but when mixed together they produce grey. I recall seeing my little brother with a big ball of grey plastocene pleading with our father; 'unmix it Daddy, unmix it'! ;-)

He that hath ears to hear...


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/4/21 4:23Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Temple Mount Faithful



As a preacher said in a sermon i was listening to on the way home ... "God is good for telling us what will happen, but exactly when and how it will happen we just have to wait and see, as any attempts to figure the latter is futile" ...

What we do know (those of us who believe such) from scripture is that somewhere in the future because God says so, in a third Jewish temple not yet existent, anti-christ will do the same thing that ...

Antiochus Epiphanes:
http://latter-rain.com/ot/antep.htm

... did in the Holy of Holies in the second ...



Dan.12
[1] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
[5] Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
[6] And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
[7] And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
[8] And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
[10] Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
[b][11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.[/b]
[12] Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
[13] But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.


Mark.13
[3] And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
[4] Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
[5] And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
[6] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
[7] And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
[8] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
[9] But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
[10] And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
[12] Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
[13] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[b][14] But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:[/b]
[15] And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
[16] And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
[17] But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[18] And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
[19] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
[20] And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

 2005/4/21 8:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Do you have plastocene over there? It is a rubbery modelling substance much loved by children, but not their mothers who have to dig it out of the carpet! When I read the above I got a picture of my younger brother aged about 3.(over 50 years ago now) Plastocene comes in 7 vivid colours, but when mixed together they produce grey. I recall seeing my little brother with a big ball of grey plastocene pleading with our father; 'unmix it Daddy, unmix it'!



Great analogy... I probably did open a pandora's box. But hey, at least I can admit when I dont have all the answers... But I'm a "hands on learner". No better way for me to learn than to jump right in.

Krispy

 2005/4/21 8:18
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Temple Mount Faithful



Brother Karl you wrote;
"Are the Jews that occupy Israel today, Jews?
I can prove that they are not" ...


Hmmmm ... That's almost (to me) like asking if African Americans (via interacial mixings) in America today are Africans? ... At which point i'd say not by birth, but certainly by descent ... By early racist American standards just a dribble of African American blood in a European was enough to make him a Negro ... Of course Jews don't have that tell-tell skin tone that automatically classes them a African or at least tinged (or tainted as white supremicist promote) by that Motherland ... What percentage of Jewish DNA/blood do you think it might take to constitute a Jew a Jew, or is there some other measuring stick? ... How can you prove Jews in Israel today are not Jews? ... Why would you want to? ... :-? ... i certainly understand why certain segments of our satanically inspired population would love to do so ... For them it's any means necessary to discount Jesus return ...

If i'm mistaken then please correct me but in Matt 24. was Jesus the Jew, answering the questions posed by His 12 Jewish disciples, about what would be happening to regathered Jews (what we know now that the probably didn't know then) in the last days? ... Aren't regathered Jews key to the fulfilment of Isaiah's prophecy of such, and toward the rebuilding of the third Temple?

Bottom line for me (and i say "me" because i'm not gonna debate anyone who thinks otherwise) is that God apparently by this scripture ...

Rev.7
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
[5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
[6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

... not only conciders that there are Jews in regathered Israel, but also whose pure enough in lineage to be divided out as His first fruits by tribes ...

We may intentionally or unintentionally come up with all kinds of ideas, theories, etc., that may counter or discount events of end time prophecy via the weakness of we finite men attempting to decipher the infinite God, but if God says it in His Book it's bound to happen whether we believe it, concieve, undersatnd it or reject it ...

Thank God He's not phased at all in His doings by what we can or can't comprehend ... :-D

 2005/4/21 9:07Profile









 Re: Tribe of Dan

Alrighty then........

Taking Revelation 7, let us consider one thing here, if this is a true representation of the nation of Israel OR it is symbolic and means something else, where then is the tribe of DAN in Revelation 7?

And more importantly, why were they removed?

Karl

 2005/4/21 9:15
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
ye were [u]at that time[/u] without Christ, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[u]but now[/u] in Christ Jesus *ye* who once were afar off are become nigh by the blood of the Christ. For *he* is our peace, [u]who has made both one[/u], and has broken down the middle wall of enclosure,having annulled the enmity in his flesh, the law of commandments in ordinances, that he might [u]form the two in himself into one new man, making peace[/u](Ephesians 2:13-15 Darby)



What God has joined together let no man divide asunder. Can there really be a purpose in moving from the Reality back to the shadows?

Just a couple of thoughts.

 2005/4/21 9:20Profile









 Re: shadowland

Taco wrote:

Quote:
[b]What God has joined together let no man divide asunder. Can there really be a purpose in moving from the Reality back to the shadows?[/b]



EXACTLY!!! Well put.

Karl

 2005/4/21 9:24
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Temple Mount Faithful




Brother Karl you wrote:
"Taking Revelation 7, let us consider one thing here, if this a true representation of the nation of Israel OR it is symbolic and means something else, where then is the tribe of DAN in Revelation 7?

And more importantly, why"?


i see Rev. 7 as literal which in part is what i based my post on, others see it as symbolic, which is why i said i'd not debate it ad-infinitum or ad-nauseum because it's not a point of view that can really be proven to "certainty" on both sides ... And as to Dan i certainly don't know why it's ommited, but on all this God does, and as last resort to any inward questions or outward impasses of discussion my faith rests there ... So i desist in this that i concider the unprovable point, as time will tell, and wish to gravitate again to your point of "certainty" that you said you can prove ...

Quote:
"Are the Jews that occupy Israel today, Jews?
I can prove that they are not" ...

So brother Karl again i ask ...

- How can you prove Jews in Israel today are not Jews? ...

i'd really like to know this ... And ...

- If i'm mistaken then please correct me but in Matt 24. was Jesus the Jew, answering the questions posed by His 12 Jewish disciples, about what would be happening to regathered Jews (what we know now that the probably didn't know then) in the last days? ... Aren't regathered Jews key to the fulfilment of Isaiah's prophecy of such, and toward the rebuilding of the third Temple?

 2005/4/21 9:50Profile









 Re: Time wasted

Rahman your asking me a question that will take more pages to discuss and I must desist.

But your already head strong in what you believe, so why should I waste my time and energy trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced or even be open for convincing.

Thanks for opening up another discussion concerning the twelve tribes, tho.

Karl

 2005/4/21 10:11
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Temple Mount Faithful


Brother Karl you wrote;
"Rahman your asking me a question that will take more pages to discuss and I must desist.

But your already head strong in what you believe, so why should I waste my time and energy trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced or even be open for convincing".


Brother Karl,

i love you man ... :-D

But what you just posted is like you being a lawyer (prosecutor) trying to convince a jury (me) with the summary "i can prove the present Jew in Israel is guilty of not being a Jew but due to the volume of my proof you'll just have to take my word for it and convict them on my word alone" ... And then when the jury comes back with a "not guilty verdict for reasonable doubt" you dismiss the jury's decision as being due to their being headstrong and unconvinceable" ... Man, what a "double-bind"! ... Well if that's your criteria for "headstrong them yep, that's me! ... Wait a minute are you a "lawyer"? ... Just trying to make my point with some humor here ... :-P :-P :-P

i'm sorry to have been a waste of your time tho bro, didn't mean to be, :-o but hope i'm somewhat redeemed by sparking the opening up of your "Dan" thread ... So you're welcome ... and i'll be looking in on it to see what folk say ... :-D

 2005/4/21 11:02Profile





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