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 Brother "rookie"

you responded:

Quote:
HezWelling listed:

"22 November 1963"



Allen Dulles worked on that one.



(dear brother, i'm leery of writing ANYTHING of "polis", that would be "politics" on this venue, or any other venue. fore it always reminds me of when the Pharisees "tested" Jesus with the 'should we pay taxes?" question. Jesus drew a pretty clear demarcation line when he used (probably) a silver denarius coin to draw that line; things of Caesar, Things of God)

a dear friend, Stephen Kinzer, just wrote, what I think is the seminal book on the Dulles lads, entitled "The Brothers". It's a heart rending read, imho...to think such a pox on our land, these two men, and their ungodly wickedness, such wickedness a template for these dark days, which have nothing to do with "dem/repub", "left/right" "lib/Con"....but everything to do with dark and fell spirit of babylon, which in its rapacious nature is in indeed, anti-Christ.

we will ALL be repaid for this, I say in total grief.

i'm sure you've seen Stephen's book, he was kind enough to let me audit, 7 years ago, his post grad class on the Rwandan genocide, as his knew Rwanda has been in my studies since I was very young...pre-genocide. He would have various "speakers", and he enjoyed when I would rip into them, if I felt they were lying, or doing "spin"...of topic I know....but maybe not, as many of the dead would seek "refuge" inside either RC or Anglican churches, only to have the "priests" of these houses of hell, allow hutu militias, inside to slaughter Tutsi innocents.

I said all that because the news of the world is getting more grim, more dark, which after many tears, I realize this is where God is doing a LOT of Work, to ascertain if our Faith is built on the Rock, on sturdy foundations, so the waters wont sweep it away, sweep us away.

we cant let THAT happen, we MUST hold onto Messiah Jesus, as our very lives depend on Him, whioh they do, Praise His Name and the Grace of God that flow like the Living Waters, forever and eternal, amen.

n.

 2014/7/29 8:12









 Re:

The robber barons were merely the pure nature of capitalism....greed. Henry Ford came along, along with Teddy Roosevelt and put an end to the robber barons. Teddy broke them down into smaller more managable pieces, yet the fundamentals remained the same. Ford , while generous to his workers, was also an evil man who was a supporter of the nazi party.

It is impossible to serve two masters. The American dream lies at the heart of discontentment. It is hard for most American Christians to accept that at the core of who they are as a nation, is greed. Capitalism is the more acceptable face of all the ism's but is as far removed from God as any of them. One of the biggest reasons for divorce in this country is money, or the perceived lack of it. The game for capitalism is to entice people to buy things they do not need with money they do not have. When they do that they become slaves and if enough of them do it then they become a nation of slaves. If one knows history, one will know that John Hancock was the wealthiest man in Boston. Six years before the " bloody masacre," ( five men killed by the redcoats in Boston) and six years before the Boston tea party, Hancock's boat was boarded by the a " tax man," to inspect a cargo that today would be worth about one million dollars, and the cargo was alcohol. He was accosted and locked up because Hancock did not want to pay taxes. This led to Britain sending 4000 troops, one soldier for every 4 citizens, which led to the bloody massacre six years later and ultimately the revolution.

It is hard to express how rich one would have to be to even own one boat, let alone a fleet of them. A ship back then was like a jumbo jet in complexity and cost. Yet despite being enormously wealthy, Hancock wanted even more. And there it is he " wanted even more." Greed corrupts, is never satisfied and rots the soul. If a nation is given over to greed then it begins to rot from the center out. Now, it may take centuries to play out, consider the Roman Empire, but play out it will. And we are surrounded today by such corruption................bro Frank

 2014/7/29 9:09
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Frank

Wow! I had no idea that Henry Ford supported the Nazi or was such a hater of the Jewish people. I did read much on how Teddy Roosevelt broke up big companies like Rockefeller but as you said the fundamentals remained the same. At the core of it all is greed.

As we study history, especially US history I am seeing that money and greed can be traced back to much of the corruption we deal with today.

I was reading just this morning how many modern day medications that are used and given out to people, labeled as safe by the government all so the pharmaceutical companies will keep their profits. Its sad to think that even human life has been reduced down to dollars....

Thanks I leaned something new and interesting today.

God bless
maryjane

 2014/7/29 10:09Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 705
San Diego

 Re: greed?

It is common these days to blast away at America, pointing out her ills and failings which are many. But I will not do that without some balance from the other side.

The history of the world has been the pursuit of wealth and comfort, nothing new under the sun about that. But the American experience has demonstrated a collossal shift from the traditional methods of attaining wealth- Conquest and Plunder.

In America, based on Christian principles, we used capitalism which has a strong component of human trust. Capitalism is the banding together of resources from those who buy in to produce profits shared proportionally with the investors. In addition, under a government of freedom anyone can participate and innovate their way to great financial gain. But there is another great guiding principle that makes this work-

Competition!

Under Conquest and Plunder there is no such thing as private property. You keep what you have by being stronger than the one who wants to take it from you. With the protections of private property, if someone wants what you have they need to compete in the marketplace to win away your customers. They have to do what you do, provide goods and services, with better quality, lower prices, quicker delivery.

This competition sets Capitalism apart, because it is the one system that confronts the reality of human greed without killing people!

As you might suspect, I am a participant in the system, and let me enlighten you on what it does to my character.

I get business because I sell high quality goods at low prices with quick turn-around. I pay attention to my competitors, and make sure I am doing a better job than they do, and it is fun to see them beat me once in a while- forcing me to innovate my way back to the top.

But I must give my customers more than those basics, I have standing in the community that demands I be honest and generous. Is it any wonder that Americans have a legendary reputation for generousity, and a sharp ear for scandal? Bad press can wipe out a business no matter how well they compete, our system demands (I speak from a theoretical standpoint) integrity from the competitors!

That's why so many grand institutions, hospitals, universities, and benevolent organizations exist in the American experience, we crave the honor and respect gained from being a benevolent people.

Of course there is the usual corruption of the world, many do it out of pride, spite, hopes of greater gain. So what? They as individuals will answer to God at their own time of judgement, but their works provide great benefits to others they don't even know.

Are the snivelling "have nots" at any moral advantage here? Those who despise the rich and take of the benefits providing nothing to help others?

When the Master gave the talents to the servants and went off to receive His kingdom, He told them to invest what they had while He was gone. When He returned He called them all in to give account of what they had done with the money. The one who had the five talents reported that the five had been invested to earn five more, the man with two had also done well and had made two more. Both were given equal praise, and rewarded with honor.

Interesting what happened to the third guy. After a scathing condemnation of the Master, he told how he had hid his one talent in the ground and was returning the whole thing to Him. The man had not produced anything, had given himself to bitterness, and missed any opportunity for prosperity. But I am struck by what the Master did with the talent thus returned from it's time in the ground.

He gave it to the guy who had the ten talents!

Capitalism is just a system of exchange, but it has an explosive potential for good as well as evil. It is men, those to whom God has given talents, who are responsible to make the good happen. It is just so much easier to do under Capitalism than other oppressive systems like socialism.

Socialism is just another Conquest and Plunder scheme, with fun names like "wealth redistribution" and "paying your fair share." It has no route to prosperity or excellence.

I believe free market capitalism is a fair interpretation of the work ethic born out of Judeo-Christian history, and the parables of Jesus specifically. Sin is in the world, and greed is the great furnace of production. But Capitalism is the one economic system that takes that greed into account and limits its destructive effects.

I can understand why Satan is so eager to besmirch it.

But I also stand amazed at the way it has produced the most generous nation on the face of the earth. America may have some pretty ugly warts, but the peoples of the whole world are clamoring to get here to get their share of it.

I may offend some here who vigorously disagree. But my time in overseas combat fixed within me a love of this country that will not go away. My first citizenship is the Kingdom of God, but my earthly home is in America.


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2014/7/29 12:17Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sidewalk wrote:

I may offend some here who vigorously disagree. But my time in overseas combat fixed within me a love of this country that will no go away. My first citizenship is the Kingdom of God, but my earthly home is in America."


First, thank you for your sacrifice.


Secondly, I agree with your view of economic liberty. But with that said, we have long lost the practice of free markets. While some may still enjoy free market activity at the local level, Crony Capitalism is the norm. And what we have today will lead to living in a country where the differences between America and other nations will disappear.

The United States has entered into a system that resembles more closely the view of this individual...

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.


People like Henry Ford, Herbert Hoover, A.P. Sloan,and Prescott Bush supported and assisted the rise of the Nazi in Germany with the goal of turning back the tide of Bolshevism. Always with an eye to gaining ownership of Asia's natural resources, these men used Fascism to overthrow Communism.

Even after World War 2, the United States actually assisted Nazi war criminals in relocating to the United States. They were given new identities and used by various intelligence agencies to promote political and economic instability in nations all over the world.


Both sides of this ongoing economic war is a work of Satan. He is a destroyer of mankind. And the love of money, for which these two groups strive against one another, has killed millions of people who are the pawns in their chess game.



Jas 5:1
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you!

Jas 5:2
Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.

Jas 5:3
Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.

Jas 5:4
Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. [fn]

Jas 5:5
You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as [fn] in a day of slaughter.

Jas 5:6
You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.






_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2014/7/29 13:39Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Frank wrote:

'The robber barons were merely the pure nature of capitalism....greed. Henry Ford came along, along with Teddy Roosevelt and put an end to the robber barons. Teddy broke them down into smaller more managable pieces, "


The work of Teddy Roosevelt actually pushed the robber barons to look outside of this nation to work their trade. That is why this nation has suffered greatly in all the wars we were drawn into to protect the interests of the robber barons.


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2014/7/29 13:46Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings sidewalk

you wrote:by Sidewalk on 2014/7/29 9:17:55

It is common these days to blast away at America, pointing out her ills and failings which are many. But I will not do that without some balance from the other side.
___________

Was not in any way attempting to blast away at America. Although our country does have quite a few ills to be in prayer for. Like I said in my post in studying history and teaching it to my children I find its really interesting to dig a bit deeper. Even in study the Robber Barons, I find studying the individual men very interesting. My interest has nothing to do with capitalism, although I will agree with Frank and say that at the root of what drives governments, companies, and even some men is greed. We can not serve GOD and money.

I have been studying about how other choices like feminism,and just overall rebellion in context to what the BIBLE has to say about it, and submitting to those in authority as well. Using history can be a really good way to help understand some of the principles the BIBLE teaches us as well. My son and I were speaking this morning and he was just saying how interesting it is to see the rise and fall of Israel as they turned their backs on GOD in the Old Testament and how there are some parallels to our own country here. People who give in to compromise, sin, and rebel against GOD.

Anyway thanks to those who have shared.

God bless
maryjane

 2014/7/29 14:03Profile









 Re:

Sidewalk believes that America is the most generous country in the world when it comes to giving. This is simply not true. Percentage of GDP America gives 0.19% I am reminded of the story Jesus tells of the widows mite and the rich giver.

America is currently behind Norway and Sweden( socialist countries) when it comes to giving. Interestingly enough, the average American believes that we give 28% of GDP. Strange how perceptions and reality seldom cross paths............bro Frank

 2014/7/29 15:58
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 705
San Diego

 Re: Continuing

First of all, thank you MaryJane for setting up the discussion. This is an important topic as it affects all of us, both in America and around the world. I had no thought against you or anyone else on the forum when I noted the popularity of America bashing, quite frankly, we all tend to do it as we observe the moral decline and have a natural interest in the causes.

In America and in Europe we look at the historical events that shaped the course of people and politics, and as Christians we are drawn to the spiritual awakenings on both sides of the Atlantic. I would quickly add also the events in the Pacific as well, seeing the moves of God in China, Korea, Indonesia, and both Japan and India.

But it was the Protestant reformation that has so much to do with the founding of America, and the Awakenings in this young nation were heard around the world. Missionaries from America and Great Britain have affected cultures around the world for blessed good, one such recent example is the hard fought freedom of South Sudan which would never have happened without the difficult but persistent work of the missionaries who went there. They brought Christ, but they also brought ideas for self-sustaining economies and the intrinsic value of human life.

So much of this can be directly traced to the generosity of capitalist Christians whose prosperity and Godly gratitude funded both individuals and mission societies.

The current president of the United States praises regularly the "contributions" of the Muslims to building the fabric of American society.

Hmmmmm. Never any examples...?


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2014/7/29 16:04Profile









 Re:

HI Rookie, the British robber barons were all ready working all over the globe through the British Empire. In order to justify greedy expansionists it was commonly told to the British people that the building of empires was actually doing the Lord's work because Christian missionaries would follow in their paths. This was much the same argument that Constantine used in aligning church and state in a co-op to conquer............bro Frank

 2014/7/29 16:29





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