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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Lord's Supper/Communion.

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 The Lord's Supper/Communion.

As we have been discussing, the RCC teaches Transubstantiation or the real presence of Christ. The Protestant Church teaches that it is a symbol. The RCC does not accept that a symbol would be put in the place of another symbol (Jewish ceremony as a shadow of what Christ would sacrifice) and that there is more to it than symbol.

I think that both views are unbalanced.

What Christ gave was His blood and body so that we could feed on Him *with faith*. He is the Bread of Heaven, and the true Vine and it is now spiritually received.

The Lord's Prayer says 'Give us this day our DAILY bread' denoting that it is to be life sustaining and therefore constant.

Before we reach a stage where we are in spiritual union with Him and able to feed on Him in this way, and show forth His life rather than His death, I don't think it is wrong to carry on with the ceremony, as did the disciples at first, so long as we are seeking the Marriage Feast and this is I believe what the scripture is meaning when it says we are not to partake 'unworthily'.

This was the scene in the Corinth Church.

So, I have started this thread to thrash it out. Begin....

 2014/7/19 10:42
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re: The Lord's Supper/Communion.

Quote:
The Protestant Church teaches that it is a symbol.


Not true. There are many Protestant churches that see it as more than a symbol, same with baptism.


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Oracio

 2014/7/19 11:03Profile









 Re:

And which ones?

 2014/7/19 11:05
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

For starters, the Calvary Chapel churches believe and teach the real presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper, with real physical and spiritual healing available.


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Oracio

 2014/7/19 11:10Profile









 Re:

But that just means that they have adopted RCC dogma doesn't it?

 2014/7/19 11:12
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

No, it just means they believe that Christ is present in a special way during Communion, not in His literal body and blood which the RCC says is offered up as a sacrifice every mass. The RCC view on it is a form of mystical cannibalism and clear blasphemy against our Lord's once for all sacrifice for sins.


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Oracio

 2014/7/19 11:28Profile
Sidewalk
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Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 702
San Diego

 Re: Communion

Three Bible incidents come to mind for me.

One is the words Jesus spoke at the Passover meal when He took the cup and said, "This is My blood, all of you drink of it." He used wine, though He had His own real blood there if He had chosen to cut himself and used physical blood. He did not do that, He let the wine be a symbol of the blood. He told the disciples to take Him inside of themselves.

Then there was the time during His ministry when He shouted to the crowd, "Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no part of Me!" Which of course freaked out a large part of the crowd, rattling the 12 as well. It was a challenge again, "Don't just know Me, take Me inside,"

Lastly was the incident following His resurrection with Cleopas and another disciple in Emmaus. The men had been prevented from recognizing Him as He spoke on the road, the Holy Spirit restraining their minds as they were filled with information. But as they attended the evening meal, when Jesus broke the bread in front of them the Holy Spirit released them to recognize Him!

Discussions on the Communion meal can get complicated and even argumentative, but in my opinion it is about two things- recognizing in my inner man who He really is, and taking that reality inside as I walk a journey to becoming just like Him for eternity. Communion elements are a physical symbol of a spiritual reality.

That's how I see it. I would be interested in what others believe about it.

David Jeremiah, pastor of a local church here in San Diego, always teaches that it is just a remembrance of Jesus work in salvation. It would irritate me that someone should go about their daily life and then once a month remember that Jesus died for their sins.

I am mindful of that moment by moment, I just think the Communion meal has to be deeper, more powerful, more compelling than just a religious exercise in remembering.

The phrase, "You are what you eat" seems to have a place here.


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Tom Cameron

 2014/7/19 13:27Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Communion



The word itself "Communion" speaks of "union". There is a sense of "intimate fellowship" that we can feel with our Lord as we remember His death and resurrection. I have felt the Lord close at times during taking the Lord's Supper. There is a mystery to the Lord's Supper that is spiritual that perhaps we can be happy not to know how to explain it but be able to partake of it and feel its blessing.

As with baptism it is not just nothing, countless evangelicals share how it is a moving experiencing and there is something spiritual that happens during the time. I personally can attest to that also.

Revelation 3:20 New International Version (NIV)

20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/7/19 13:52Profile
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Oracico is correct the RCC teaches that the wafer, becomes JESUS actual flesh, and that the wine becomes HIS actual blood. The priest prays, while the congregation is kneeling. The priest prays the Eucharistic Prayer and then holds the consecrated host up for all to see. At this point the wafer has become his actual body, and the wine becomes HIS actual blood...at least that is what any truly devout Catholic will tell you and believe. One other thing that should be made clear, Catholics are taught that there are requirements that must be met in order to take communion. They are taught that in order to truly be acceptable to take communion, one must first go to confession by going to the priest, confess, do penance,(pray prayers with the rosary) then you must believe that the wine and wafer become his flesh and blood, you must fast for no less then one hour before and then finally you will be in the right place and worthy to take communion. It is a very big deal to Catholics, the more frequently you take communion the closer you are to JESUS because you have been joined with HIM by the eating of his flesh. It is false teaching, it is not BIBLICAL and there is no support for such notions. They are pagan in their concept and no true believing Christian would take part in such an exercise.

God bless
maryjane

 2014/7/19 14:22Profile
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The earliest known use of the term "transubstantiation" to describe the change from bread and wine to body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist was by Hildebert de Lavardin, Archbishop of Tours, in the 11th century.[12][13] By the end of the 12th century the term was in widespread use.[14] The Fourth Council of the Lateran, which convened beginning November 11, 1215,[15] spoke of the bread and wine as "transubstantiated" into the body and blood of Christ: "His body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the forms of bread and wine, the bread and wine having been transubstantiated, by God's power, into his body and blood".[16]

The Council of Trent in its 13th session ending October 11, 1551, defined transubstantiation as "that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood – the species only of the bread and wine remaining – which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation".[19]

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation



So we see that in the 11th century this was mentioned and more or less formed. Before that there was in some ways a more healthy way of the Lord's Supper being practiced.

Again modern RCC is different then early church or a forming RCC church.

I personally do see Transubstantiation as an extreme wrong emphasis and it being heretical and wrong. But it is an extreme of something that is true that there is a mystery and blessing in the Holy Communion.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/7/19 14:34Profile





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