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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Veni Sancte Spiritus

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Veni Sancte Spiritus

King Robert II the Pious of France (970-1031)

Come, Holy Spirit,
send forth the heavenly
radiance of your light.

Come, father of the poor,
come, giver of gifts,
come, light of the heart.
Greatest comforter,
sweet guest of the soul,
sweet consolation.

In labor, rest,
in heat, temperance,
in tears, solace.
O most blessed light,
fill the inmost heart
of your faithful.

Without your grace,
there is nothing in us,
nothing that is not harmful.

Cleanse that which is unclean,
water that which is dry,
heal that which is wounded.

Bend that which is inflexible,
fire that which is chilled,
correct what goes astray.

Give to your faithful,
those who trust in you,
the sevenfold gifts.

Grant the reward of virtue,
grant the deliverance of salvation,
grant eternal joy.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/7/9 0:48Profile
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 785


 Re: Veni Sancte Spiritus

Just to help with understanding what is being asked here, I thought I would define what "the sevenfold gifts" were (I had to lookup what those were talking about).

In a prophecy about the then-coming Messiah, Isaiah 11:2-3 says this:

Quote:
The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

His delight is in the fear of the Lord,
And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;



So the sevenfold gifts of the spirit, as defined by the early church fathers were these:

1.Wisdom,
2.Understanding,
3.Counsel,
4.Fortitude,
5.Knowledge,
6.Piety,
7.Fear of the Lord.


source: http://www.bibleversesabout.org/the-holy-spirit/gifts-of-the-spirit-fruit-of-the-spirit/ et al

 2014/7/9 12:20Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I was curious to know who king Robert II was and found some concerning things in all due respect. I learned that he was a Catholic king who persecuted Jews and had heretics burned at the stake. Not sure if brother Greg was aware of this.

This is what concerned me:

"Robert, however, despite his marital problems, was a very devout Catholic, hence his sobriquet "the Pious." He was musically inclined, being a composer, chorister, and poet, and making his palace a place of religious seclusion, where he conducted the matins and vespers in his royal robes. However, to contemporaries, Robert's "piety" also resulted from his lack of toleration for heretics: he harshly punished them. Indeed, he is credited with advocating forced conversions of local Jewry, as well as mob violence against Jews who refused.[10] Furthermore, Robert reinstated the Roman imperial custom of burning heretics at the stake.[11]"

Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/robert-ii-king-of-france#ixzz36zYJj8Qc

I also read this from another source:

"Robert was educated at the episcopal school of Reims under Gerbert of Aurillac, later Pope Sylvester II."

Source: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/505412/Robert-II

I understand that the early church fathers had beliefs which were Catholic in nature, and yet we may be able to benefit from some of their writings. I'm not into those writings personally and I'm not too sure how I feel about them as I haven't looked deeply into this topic. But it seems to me that the further on down in history the worse it gets with the Catholic church regarding deviation from sound biblical doctrine and practice. It seems to me that by medieval times the Catholic church was so corrupted that I wouldn't really see any benefit in endorsing or reading anything from leaders or members of it. But maybe that is debatable and like I said I haven't really looked into that topic much. My concern would be with the need to guard against ecumenism, the push to unite evangelicals and Catholics.

I thought this article on ecumenism from the Got Questions site was interesting:

http://www.gotquestions.org/ecumenism-ecumenical.html


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Oracio

 2014/7/9 14:06Profile
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36870
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
In conclusion, should we be involved in ecumenical cooperation with other Christians and churches? If the above conditions are met in a God-honoring way, we may freely and joyfully join with other believers in pursuit of God’s kingdom. The ultimate goal is God’s glory and the evangelism and discipleship of the lost. The ecumenical venture must be structured in this way. Thus, those we join with must believe the biblical definition of the gospel and they must also be about seeking the same goal of God’s glory and the salvation of the lost.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/ecumenism-ecumenical.html#ixzz36zsPSD3n




I appreciate that statement, that we are One with all true saints who are of the One faith, baptism and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and His precious blood shed. The Church is One and Jesus Christ is the Head.

Towards Catholism, of course there is a deviation in it during especially the dark ages (mediaeval times). The reformation itself though not in that time period has its extremes and darkness as well, and even thoughts against jewish people, etc.

God's Church has always been imperfect and faulty and we must not forsake it all in sake of something new and novel but learn from Church history and follow in the godly traditions of saints from the past not copying their mistakes.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/7/9 14:26Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

From the same article:

Quote:
As seen with the publication of Evangelicals and Catholics Together, there is a major emphasis in our day on ecumenical unity among Evangelicals and Roman Catholics. Those who promote such unity state that both are Christian and both are viable, God-honoring systems of faith. But clearly the substantial differences between the two groups render ECT a ridiculous document. Biblical Christianity and Roman Catholicism are two different religions that practice and believe different things about how one is saved, the authority of the Bible, the priesthood of believers, the nature of man, the work of Christ on the cross, etc. The list of irreconcilable differences between what the Bible says and what the Roman Catholic Church says makes any joint mission between the two absolutely impossible. Those who deny this are not being true to what they say they believe, no matter which side they are on. Any Catholic who is serious about his faith will deny what a serious evangelical Christian believes and vice-versa.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/ecumenism-ecumenical.html#ixzz370UUXw2T



I guess that would be my main concern in this regard.


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Oracio

 2014/7/9 16:58Profile





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