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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Evangelical Sex Abuse Record 'Worse' Than Catholic

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brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

hi ginney are you saying that you think 20 ;25 percent of the girls where abused by evengelical cleragy,,im nor sure if that is what you are saying

 2014/7/10 3:14Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5415
NC, USA

 Re:

Gary--

My exact words were: "We bury our head in the sand and attack the accuser or those seeking to do something about it."

I did not say "You." I said "we" because this is a soceietal issue. The reason child sex abuse is rampant is because we as a society have allowed it to go on due to certain behaviors, two of which are attacking the person who makes the accusation (again I am not saying you were doing this) or attacking organizations or people who are trying to addreess the problem.

Of course this is only a small part of the reason why this issue exists.

If you truly believe that evangelical churches are exempt from this widespread evil, I will just have to disagreee with you. The better mindset is to accept that it IS happening to our children in our churches and set out to stop it by having specific rules in place regarding children being alone with an adult, background checks, etc. You rarely catch a child abuser in the act. You catch them breaking rules.

My guess is that the large majority of evangelical chruches don't have many safeguards in place because the attitude is "it couldn't happen here" or "i know that so and so would never abuse a child." The only problem is that this is what ALWAYS is said about an abuser before they are caught.


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Todd

 2014/7/10 6:37Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

read what you said ............With all due respect Gary, your statement is an example of the reason child sexual abuse is such a rampant problem. We bury our head in the sand and attack the accuser or those seeking to do something about it.


my statment is an example of child sexual abuse is a rampent problem ,,,,,,,,thats nasty stuff man


you said we bury our heads in the sand after saying my nwords are basicy the reson an example of a reason ,,children get sexualy abused

i can explain if you like why i said i dont think he is a christian or i asked weather he was a christian ,,,,,,,


iand it is a bibical reason why this gyes words dont reflect what a bornagaing believe word say even if it is all true

he never once explained to the listens that the evengical movment is made of of liberlal god haters who do not believe the bible ,,and accoring to the bible are not even christian ,or true evengical in it historaical bibical context ,,,he painted with a brord brush stroke and put all in one basket ,,and never quoted the nesasary verses from the letter of john to prove that most of this type of behavour is inposable to do if you are truly born agaqin


he has done the true christian a great injustise not destingishing between the children of the devil and the children of god ,,and whenstrong persacution comes to ya over in usa from the government ,,it will be becasue of statments like that ,,,he has played devils advocate

 2014/7/10 7:47Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5415
NC, USA

 Re:

Gary what difference does it make whether the guy in the article is a Christian or not? I would suspect that he is but even if not, so what?

He is simply bringing to light an issue that has gone undiscussed in evangelical circles for too long. I applaud him for doing do.

If you refuse to accept that this is going on in the evangelical churches-even the solid non liberal ones then yes, you are burying your head in the sand.


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Todd

 2014/7/10 8:01Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5415
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote: "Dolfan, I wonder how can you as a Believer defend a sex offender in court? Was he guilty? I know if a fellow does it once he immediately becomes a suspect in future cases. Just wondering."

I believe he said he was appointed by the court.

In this country the accused still has a right to counsel and a fair trial. Thank goodness for that.


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Todd

 2014/7/10 8:04Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

well when you said we attack the accuser ,,i figuerd what i said about him probably not being a christian ,,was seen by you as me attacking him


it is the same if i found about for istance about all the sexabuse in your family by say you uncile and brothers ,,i and slander you whole family and say theres so much abuse in whaters name you have you your family you included are the worst family in america worse then moct sex cults ...no even if what i said had truth in it it is wrong to lable you family as a the worst bunch of sex abuses

brother the bibile and john refuses to except that sinfull behavour is practiced by true christian ,,imposable ,,god seed remaith in him and he cant practic sin ,,whe who sisns has neither seen god nor known god ,,he who sin is of the devil he who is born of god keepeth him self and the evil one does not touch him


that what i reufes to except ,,,,,and that is the destingion that needs to be mad ,,,have you any idea have much slander and blasphemy has aarose form him not defending the truth ,,but just point out error ,,,you only need to look at the blasphemic comments that unbeliever are saying about all christiians and god him self

the devils advocate is what he is played wheather what he said had truth in or it was all lies ,,,the devil is a master in expounding halftruths,, to cause blasphemy

when somthing good comes from what he said be sure to let me know ,,no hipothetical opinions please

 2014/7/10 8:27Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

TMK, true.

Ginnyrose, trust me, that is a question I weigh a lot in many cases.

Here is all I can say about it:

I deal with the facts I have. Not every case is clear. Now I am referring to more than sexual abuse cases, here. Most cases, though, are.

In clear cases, I do my job and seek a plea bargain on the best terms I can. In questionable cases, we typically settle those with pleas, too. My job in those cases is, essentially, to make sure my clients constitutional rights are observed, that he knows what is happening in his case and makes decisions with knowledge of his rights and of the law and of the evidence. I advise based on the facts, the law, and my own experience.

My job is not to encourage or seek or offer lies. If I engage in untruths, they are not known to me but are falsehoods based on statements or other evidence from clients, witnesses or police. I deal in realities and do not stage or show off to try and make a client happy with useless demonstrative sideshows.

I defend guilty people all the time. And, they are punished according to the law all the time. It is the nature of this business.

Where someone has a substantive, valid defense, I provide that. Because, believe it or not, and it happens often, the police and the prosecutors are wrong. Wrong on the law. Wrong on the facts. Wrong in believing a witness who is lying.

I understand your question. I don't begrudge it. I pray a lot.


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Tim

 2014/7/10 9:30Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5415
NC, USA

 Re:

Gary I 100% agree with you that true Christians are not abusers.

I don't believe that is what this man is saying. He is saying that wolves masquerading as Christians infiltrate churches and mission organizations (and other youth serving organizations) to commit evil. These people go where the kids are. It is a vile evil.

I think the article is a clarion call to churches to wake up and take action on this issue. Many youth serving organizations have done so. Churches should be leading the charge, not lagging behind on this issue because it is important to Jesus. What did He say about those who mistreat children?

A church or Christian organization who refuses to take steps to stop this problem and protect children is guilty pure and simple.


_________________
Todd

 2014/7/10 10:07Profile









 Re:

While I believe that any organization which involves young people and vulnerable people attract predators, the notion that the Evangelical community, which I am no big fan of, is just as bad as the Catholics is just fiction.

The Catholic Church has systematically been involved, on every continent in the world, in the abuse of children, probably in the millions over the centuries. The Catholic Church is an organization that compels men into celibacy and gave cover for homosexuality for centuries and was/is corrupt from the ground up.

It is a common argument from Catholics and Catholic communities , I know, I was one and came from one, that " The Catholic Church is no worse than anyone else when it comes to abuse." This was their way of not dealing with the problem. And the losers in that scenario was always the children.................bro Frank

 2014/7/10 10:53
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 635


 Re:

Nothing is hidden from God, but in human realm, sexual abuse is defined by our legal system, and the culpability or innocence of a person is based on the evidences presented compliant to the rules of court and may not necessarily represent the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

In the epistle to the Corinthians, a grave sexual perversion
has been committed, let it be remembered that in the end it still God who will decide to pardon or execute punishment or to call the offender into repentance, but this does not necessarily make church discipline or our penal system null and void.

 2014/7/12 9:01Profile





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