| Re: Mary Jane|
Dear sister how would you respond to this short narrative from Tom Doyle's book, Dreams and Visions?
"We are imams, and we all studied at Al-Azhar University. During our time there, each of us had a dream about Jesus, and each of us has privately become a follower of Christ. For a time, we didn't dare tell anyone about this. It would, of course have been out on death sentences. But finally we could hide it no longer. We each prayed to Jesus for His help to learn what it means to be His follower. Over time. He brought us together, and you can imagine our amazement when the Holy Spirit revealed that there are other imams who have found Jesus as well. Now we meet here three times a week at night to pray for our families and for the people in our mosques to find Jesus to. We know you follow Christ. He led us to you.......But now our question is will you teach the Bible°?
Before I go any further dear sister I just want to get your thoughts on the account above.
| 2014/7/8 11:47|
| Re: |
I believe you shared something like this before, in another thread and we discussed it or maybe I just remember it being discussed I am not sure???
I am talking about what these missionary are telling people who are lost. They are not teaching the BIBLE, they are compromising.
Not giving someone the who truth is cruel. Telling a muslim or anyone in sin they can continue to live in sin and follow JESUS and be saved is a cruel lie.
Did you read the article, these are western missionary's that are teaching the following:
“Muslims and Christians both love God and their neighbors after all – they just need to know about Jesus”: This remark from yet another evangelical missionary was made in defense of the recent interfaith document called, “A Common Word Between Us and You,” sent to Christian leaders everywhere on October 13, 2007, by 138 Muslim scholars, and largely received without critique. In fact, many evangelicals embraced it. This document states that Muslims and Christians enjoy common ground in several areas, such as our "love of God" and our "love of neighbor."
However, can a false religion that denies the Trinity and denies the substitutionary atonement of Christ for sinners really be said to love the true God? Can a religion that advocates jihad really be said to be one which cultivates love towards all their neighbors (including the khafir)?
This trend towards focusing on "common ground" rather than contending for legitimate points of difference is a hallmark of modern evangelical missions towards Muslims. We may permissibly look for legitimate "open windows" of commonality rather than beating on closed doors, but let us never do so at the expense of truth.
“They don’t need to go to church – it's better that we keep them within the mosque”: This remark was made by one veteran missionary in Indonesia in an attempt to prevent “missionary extractionism” and keep new “converts” within their family structures to minister to their communities from the inside.
“Don’t use the Word ‘Christian,’ use the phrase, ‘Follower of Isa,’
…“It’s okay to call Muhammad a prophet, he spoke many truths, after all,”
… “It is okay to call yourself a Muslim. After all, what is a Muslim but one who submits to God. And we all want to do that, don’t we?”
Blaine as someone who loves the WORD as much as you do surely you can see the error in what is happening here???
Read this portion from the same article:
“I believe she is in the Kingdom”: We hired a local woman to help us clean house. Another Western missionary bragged about this woman’s “faith.” In the following weeks, her gentle nature was obvious, and she sometimes even prayed for help from the Prophet Isa. Yet, she self-identified as a Muslim (not even a good one, offering a plate of food to her family spirit during her baby’s hair-cutting ceremony held on the 40th day after birth, a ritual common in her culture). Yet, she was counted as a missionary success.
Does the fruit in this woman's life give you cause to believe her saved?
| 2014/7/8 12:51||Profile|
| Re: |
Mary Jane there are distinctions that need to be made in the insider movement. If true, then what is being told these people by these missionaries is not true. It is a distortion of the gospel.
But what I am contending for are authentic conversions of the account I described in my previous post.
Noted Bible teachers such as John MacArthur have said such accounts are not true. These accounts do not fit their theology of cessationusm. Since you have shared links and articles from Heart Cry I assume Paul Washer wound embrace the same view.
I am suggesting that God is working through dreams and visions to bring Moslems to Himself. But those in the Calvinistic camp decry such. They only see Moslems as coming to Christ through a Calvinistic Reformed exposition of scripture. I might add something unheard of in Islamic nations.
But again, dear sister, I understand where you are coming from. I hope you see what I am trying to convey.
| 2014/7/8 13:30|
| Re: |
My sister I do have a love for His Word. But that still does not negate my belief that God is nit working through dreams and visions to bring Moslems to Himself.
But cessationist brethren would take sharp issue with this.
| 2014/7/8 13:35|
| Re: |
Mary Jane spoke with Frank for clarification on your concern. I do agree that the syncretism between Islam and Christianity, sometimes called Chrislam is dangerous.
This is a deception a deception in the end times. Clearly one must be committed to Jesus and Jesus alone.
| 2014/7/8 14:18|
| Re: |
MaryJane- I agree with you and think teaching others that they don't really have to "follow" Jesus in order to be a Christian isn't even- well, Christian.
Although it seems a little off-topic, I agree with the passage bearmaster posted where it says, "During our time there, each of us had a dream about Jesus, and each of us has privately become a follower of Christ. For a time, we didn't dare tell anyone about this. It would, of course have been out on death sentences. But finally we could hide it no longer. We each prayed to Jesus for His help to learn what it means to be His follower..."
We are certainly called to be wise, and God has time for everything. The key words in this passage are, "for a time, we didn't tell anyone..." For a time...
I have gone along with many traditions because I have been afraid of my husband. I walked under the Koran to be let out of the house, I even kissed the Koran ( I know, I know... a traitor indeed) but since my conversion I could never call myself a Muslim. A Muslim is submissive to Allah.
Nobody lights a lamp to be put under a basket. This does not mean that I have to be bold beyond what my faith. This means that I will be bold according to my faith.
While I have had many shortcomings, I cannot fathom being taught that it's ok to keep the attitude that I can remain in opposition to the one I profess to follow.
While we are on this topic- please pray for me, as I'm finding that I am being put in situations that force me to either disrespect my husband and his family or disrespect my God,and contrary to what most people think, it is actually really difficult sometimes when you really are faced with it.
| 2014/7/8 18:34||Profile|
| Re: |
Onemite I pray that God will give you wisdom to be wise as a serpent but gentle as a lamb.
Sister how did you come to Jesus out of Islam. Can you share without danger to yourself or others?
Blaine aka Bearnaster
We are praying every night on Persecution Watch though Ramadan. Our desire us to see a great influx of Moslems come to Jesus. May your husband and his family be part if that harvest.
| 2014/7/8 19:05|
| Re: |
I am American, married to a Muslim.
When I first married at a young age, I considered myself a Christian by upbringing but I didn't have revelation.
My husband introduced the Koran to me, and told me that the bible had discrepancies and had been changed. When I read my bible, the words seemed so twisted and silly that it didnt take long for me to believe what I was being told.
I read the Koran faithfully, but never really accepted it wholly.
After some time of living in his country, the Lord allowed me to fall into a pit of despair, and allowed me to see the war for me was a spiritual one. I searched the Koran for remedy but it offered none- so I turned to the bible I had been given, and started reading.
It was a big deal and there was a tremendous fight in the spirit realm for my mind and soul, but after much struggle to find the truth, Jesus delivered my soul. I still shake my head at how He found me in the most unlikely place far from home, far from preachers and churches, and the Holy Spirit was my teacher. God did use a few people as instruments to encourage me and I'm so thankful! His timing is perfect and just typing this, I am once again in awe of His ways! What was meant for my evil, God used for my good.
After these things happened, I was so full of gratitude to God and so full of the Holy Spirit that I went telling my in-laws and all who would hear me, what God had done for me in the name of Jesus.Some time after, my husband told me to stop telling people and keep it to myself, and I did. Nobody pressured me to go against my faith at that time.
We no longer live there but I still travel frequently and I find that I have more pressure to deny my faith now than I did then. When the religion is interwoven so tightly with daily life, it becomes difficult to stay separated when interacting with others- if that makes sense. It certainly calls for a lot of wisdom. Sometimes I get frightened that I might deceive myself by becoming self righteous or rebellious,standing my ground on an issue that doesn't really have eternal value, but that subject is good for another thread :)
| 2014/7/8 21:16||Profile|
| 2014/7/8 21:16||Profile|
| Re: |
Wisdom indeed is always needed, the leading of the Holy Spirit in every aspect of our lives. I come from the west coast of Scotland, on the map it is just across a small sea from Northern Ireland. Many know of the " troubles" in Northern Ireland where Catholics killed Protestants and Protestants killed Catholics. Neither of those sides were Christians, it was one religion killing and hating another. So much of this spilled into the Scottish town where I grew up. Almost every town in the " Lowlands," were divided by religion and separated by bigotry. For a Catholic to marry a Protestant would be like a black man marrying a white woman in the 60s in the USA.
Many families were torn apart when a Catholic married a Protestant. Often times one side or the other would not show up for the wedding and either party could be shunned by the other for the rest of their lives depending upon the level of bigotry of the families involved. Yet for love, many ignored the cruel religious bigotries of their families and followed their hearts. It cost many of them so much. Now I have a Catholic background. When Catholics come to Christ, depending which part of the Catholic world they come from, it often causes tremendous rifts in families.
When it comes right down to it, there is always a price to pay for genuine salvation. Every genuine saint is somewhere on the sliding scales of sorrows and trials and persecution when they live Godly lives in Christ Jesus, it cannot be avoided in the end. In the end it comes down to who we want to honor the most in our lives. The world demands that we relegate Jesus to second place, to relegate truth to second place. Often times we do it out of fear, or we are weak or we are still learning. Yet, as we grow in Christ, as we are baptized in the Holy Spirit, especially being baptized in the Holy Spirit, there is a boldness that enters us.
Think about Peter's speech to the crowd, he had just been baptized in the Holy Spirit and now we see a very different man that had denied Jesus. In every century since the beginning of the Church, no matter where on the planet, saints have been called upon to to stand upon Truth and be unashamed of the Gospel. This is our fundamental truth, it is what makes us peculiar people, a people who are washed in the Blood of the Lamb, who make confession of their testimonies and a people who loved not their lives unto death.
What should saints do in countries that are extremely anti Christian? Each and every one must be led by the Holy Spirit. Peter denied Jesus to save His own life and it almost destroyed him spiritually. I myself do not count staying under the radar of cruel and evil authorities as a denial of the faith. However, when confronted directly, I do not see any Biblical truth in denying Jesus to save our lives. I also do not read in the historical account of any groups of genuine saints down through the ages, having as a policy, denying Jesus to save their lives quite the opposite. We saints in the west may soon have the opportunity to live out that reality. Just because we have not had to live it in recent times does not change the fact that this is the history of the Church right from the beginning..........bro Frank
| 2014/7/8 22:15|