TMK, please forgive me if my last post sounded too harsh toward you. I don't believe I had a condescending attitude toward you but I know it could have easily come across that way. I was just trying to make some honest and blunt points.

Respectfully, instead of respected continuationist believers trying to dialogue with or debate JM concerning cessationism, I think it would better for them to start joining him in confronting and exposing wof prosperity preaching. In many cases it would mean they would have to completely break from certain circles of influence they are part of, and I'm afraid some are not willing to risk that or suffer the consequences of that.

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Oracio

One solid example of a Pentecostal preacher who did not shrink back from exposing wof false teaching was David Wilkerson. Currently Carter Conlon seems to have the same kind of boldness. I praise God for them. I wish there were more like them but they are few and far between. May God raise up more like them in these dark times.

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Oracio

I believe that strange fire, false teachers and prophets, counterfeit manifestations of the Spirit need to be addressed and dealt with, but not by John MacArthur.

Personally, I don't want someone lecturing me about the "strange fire" that He sees in the Church, when he doesn't know what the "true fire" of the Spirit is because he rejects it. Most Pentecostals and Charismatics are not going to listen to him, because MacArthur rejects the very gifts of the Spirit that they have been operating in for years.

And what about those that don't believe in the true manifestations of the Holy Spirit? What good is John MacArthur doing for them? He is only confirming and solidifying them in their doubt and unbelief, and keeping them from operating in the very gifts that God has placed within them for the building up of the Body of Christ. He is shutting the door to healing for them, and because they believe that he is solid in the teachings of the scriptures, they are being robbed of the whole council of God, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the power of God to enter in to their ministry.

There is a very good and obvious reason why John MacArthur will not debate with Michael Brown on the false accusations that he has made concerning charismatics. This is a debate that he cannot win, because John MacArthur knows the scriptures. He knows what the Word says about healing and the other manifestations of the Holy Spirit, and he would have to cut up his New Testament and skirt around the truth to be able to prove his point.

There are many brothers and sisters that post on this forum that believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the true manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit. I donn't know of a one of them that are trying to defend the false teachers and prophets or the "strange fire" that is taking place in many places.

There is going to be "strange fire" wherever there is true fire. The revivals of the past have proved this out, but we don't need any more heresy hunters that are not discerning but that classify any type of supernatural manifestion as being "strange fire." This is one of the enemie's tactics to stop a revival or move of God in it's infancy.

Let us pray for true discernment in the Body of Christ. "Let us prove all things and holdfast to that which is good." (1Thessalonians 5:21).

Mike

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Mike

Quote: I think it would better for them to start joining him in confronting and exposing wof prosperity preaching.

Exposing WOF prosperity preaching, while pulling a salary of $402,444 from Grace to You and $103,000 from The Master's College and Seminary during 2011. Add to that Grace Community Church salary, speakers fees and book royalties.

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Colin Murray

Good balanced teaching by Shane Idleman that was posted on Sermon Index.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iovoQ1Xh4NY

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Mike

Quote: "In many cases it would mean they would have to completely break from certain circles of influence they are part of, and I'm afraid some are not willing to risk that or suffer the consequences of that."

Absolutely true. I agree. This problem applies to every leader of a ministry- charismatic or non-charismatic.

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Todd

Agreed TMK.

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Oracio

Mike, from the tone of your posts regarding JM, I take it that you cannot stomach his teaching. I respect that, as I on the other hand cannot receive from Michael Brown sometimes because of his close ties with wof preachers and some of his other views. I guess that's always going to be a reality on a forum like this. We will not all like the same preachers. That's okay. My point in all this is, may we learn not to cut off from fellowship those with whom we disagree with on non-essentials. WOF is not a non-essential issue, it is seriously harmful and I am a testimony of how harmful it is having been under that teaching for a few years till the Lord opened my eyes and set me free.

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Oracio

I really like Mike Brown and when you listen to his sermons you would get no clue that he has any dealings with prosperity teachers and the likes of Benny Hinn.

Long ago I sent him an email because I was troubled because I once heard him mention Benny Hinn in a positive light and it bothered me. He did respond and I will try to find it.

I don't believe he personally holds with the charismaniacs based on his writing and preaching and what I hear on his radio show.

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Todd

Ok I found Dr browns response to me. This was from 2008:
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Todd,

I don't know Benny personally, nor do I follow his ministry. Some of my close friends, however, know him very well, and they assure me that he is quite sincere and devoted to Jesus and certainly not a charlatan. His style may be offensive to some and at times his teaching has raised eyebrows, but that is a far cry from being a charlatan.

In any case, you should not read too much into a passing comment made by me in a message, either positive or negative, and with regard to Benny Hinn and other leaders, wherever possible, believe the best about them unless you have firsthand information to the contrary.

Blessings,

Dr. Brown
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As you can tell I told dr brown I thought Hinn was a charlatan.

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Todd