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havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Quote:
For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”




If it is something that overcomes me, it has enslaved me. Period.

The difference is whether you are overcome by it. Is anyone overcome by Advil? By Pepto? By Insulin? No.

Marijuana, yes. Tobacco, yes. Some perscription drugs, yes.


Quote:

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Abstain from all appearance of evil.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.



Abstain from even looking evil. I wouldn't take medical marijuana if someone paid me a kazillion dollars to do it or if it was the only "cure" to some ailment I had. Why? Because I am not even going to look like I am doing evil. Look at what Paul says immediately after--our whole spirit and body to be preserved. So this isn't a gnostic kind of life where we can have spirits that are preserved and just let our bodies sin it up.


That's not a systematic theology, but those are some Scriptures that I immediately thought of.

 2014/6/27 9:34Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Here in NC the state lawmakers just passed a bill to allow the use of CBD oil which is extracted from the marijuana plant and contains no THC.

It has shown great benefit in treating children with terrible seizure disorders. You see these kids on the news and it rips your heart out. I can't imagine having to deal with that on a daily basis. You can bet if I had a child with that condition I would have been lobbying hard for passage of that bill.

So even when it comes to certain uses of marijuana for true medical reasons I am not opposed. Nor would I be opposed to narcotic medication for severe pain control even though though they are derived from the same plants (coca and poppy) that have been so destructive to society.

It comes down to legitimate use that does not lead to sin.


_________________
Todd

 2014/6/27 10:09Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I think some very good points have been made on the side of confronting the sinful use of drugs. God's Word is very clear on being sober and vigilant and being filled with the Holy Spirit as opposed to being filled with intoxicating drink. When out on the streets evangelizing I sometimes come across professing Christians who justify the use of recreational marijuana. It seems we may be seeing more of that from churches in the coming days as the current apostasy increases rapidly.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/6/27 15:41Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Oracio,

It is easy to do. When we dont' know the Word, we can be tossed around by every wind of doctrine.

 2014/6/27 16:51Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

tmk I wsnt refuring to your post at my first comment but heydave

I don't like common scence because ,,,that wont work when I tell a sinner to repent of sin but use his common scence regarding pot use be it for pain or relaxation,, which is the common use ,,,,,,and the bible says one who only has milk does not desern between good and evil properly ,but only the mature ,,so I cant tell the young Christian to use common scence

im just asking a few questions in a bunch or superette issues ,,,don't get me wrong ,,I know by new testament well and our call for sobriety ,,,that realy has nothing to do with my concernes in preaching and defining sin

because the average uses of recreationl pot that I work with and know in most cases will claim that he is sober most of the time and can work and do every thing nomale,in the same way he would after a few beers and or a few pain killers for strong back pain

im about to go out so I will address you gys alittle more clearly later thanks for you coments

tmk ,,you raise the questions about phramakai that I want others to address bibicaly and not opinionaly

because when we look at two drugs like pot and codein for strong pain relief in a state that has both legalised ,,it would be hard to preach against one as a sin and the other as exceptable ,,,,I know of a woman who has wreak her spine and stumbles everywhere on a wlking stick ,,,consingned to morhine for the rest of her life ,, has fond pot to be a beter treatment and much much less intoxicating and less harsh on her mind and body


these issiues make it difical to adrees bibicaly with balance



any more ides on what the bible iludes to in case like this as well as the other points


please if you can try to draw from scripture because I want that to be the wepone to bring correction


what does pharmakia mean and how is this relevant to medicine


blessings

 2014/6/27 17:34Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Gary, let me qualify and explain my comments.

In my experience most people and especially believers have enough 'sense' and wisdom to know that taking any drugs for recreational purposes is foolish and a dangerous road to follow. Your point about the use and distinguishing between drugs for medicinal use is a different issue.

I think that your desire to find a scriptural basis for preaching against the sin of pot smoking to unbelievers is probably not the right path to go downfall. My earlier point is that they are dead in sin anyway and their whole life (not just this one thing) is estranged from God. They need to hear the gospel and repent and be reconciled to God. Then once reconciled they will come into the wisdom of God and have the desire to be sober, etc and not want to be enslaved to anything such as dope. This is my experiencd with those who were smoker's. They did not need to be told not to smoke, their conscience was awaken after they were born again and they desired to give it up. It was pointless telling them before they were saved that they should not smoke.

Trust this is clearer and explains what has been said by many about the scriptural principles that we then use biblical common sense to understand what is acceptable or not. An example would be gambling. Nowhere in the bible does it say gambling is sin, but we all know it is wrong. Why is this? I would suggest that it is because we know that covetousness is a sin and gambling is love of money that often leads to addiction and bondage. So we don't need a specific verse that say 'thou shalt not gamble' or 'thou shalt not smoke dope'.

God bless you.


_________________
Dave

 2014/6/28 17:34Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

yea dave I see what your saying ,,but like you said it might be most have the scence,, but im talking about the minority that don't have the scence

they do need to hear the gospel and repent ,,,repent from what sin ,and torwards god ,,,,if they don't believe cigertes and pot smoking are sin ,,they say you need god that good for you I don't need god pot smoking is not sin realy im not hurting any body

brother I know you say in your experience ,,,but that is often different for different people

in my experience I wasted ten years smoking pot wile after being born again ,,because I could not find where in the bible it was sin ,,ignoring ,,the small voice of conviction ,,it came down to idolatry and it it took me a long time to understand what idlolarty was

brother I wasnt looking for the particular verse that said cannabis sativa is sin if you smoke

but what is the best biblical way to point out sin as sin

saying to these gyes that smoking pot is witchcraft ,,doesn't have any effect ,excepted make look like im talking trash


brother dont you think the gospel is also calling a person to repent of sins ,,,particular sins rather then glossing over sins and not explaining what they are

blessings to ya

 2014/6/28 19:37Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Hi Gary

When scripture uses the word pharmakeia it seems to be in association with dark arts, I.e. the use of drugs in conjunction with idolatry or necromancy etc.

If you are looking for a definition of what pharmakeia is in scripture I don't think it is there. We don't even know what drugs they were using in association with those dark purposes. Probably a hallucinogen of some sort but scripture does not say.

So we have to be guided by other scriptures regarding sobriety etc. I think we also have to weight benefit vs. harm. It's easy for those of us who don't suffer from intractable pain to tell those who are that they shouldn't take a certain drug, even a drug like cannabis.


_________________
Todd

 2014/6/28 19:53Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

brother im not saying that a sinner can stop sinning before he comes to Christ ,,,,,but he can be convicted of sins and see his sinfulness even in what he thought was harmless fun

I realise conviction can come after coversion ,, but I don't think that is the normal way gods spirit works ,,tho that was my conversion ,,,,,,,if we look at scripture both john the baptise and jesus preach againsts all manner of sins before the gospel was proclaimed ,,,,the people should have been convicted and ready to receive

 2014/6/28 19:58Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

yea I agree with you tmk ,,,,,

it strange to me that Christians would uses pharmaika to sugest that people who take drugs are sinning ,,,it seems out of context

regarding sorbrity ,,that would work but if a user is using very small amounts and is still sober and not druken ,,then its hard to use that as a tool to convict

your last paragraph I agree with very hard ,,,when many of the same people who say you cant uses cannabis say morphine or codein is fine ,,,,,,where is the logic and common scence in that

 2014/6/28 20:06Profile





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