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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What is absolute surrender?

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brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

your welcome,,, i like how god is verry hard to nail down or box in when it comes to coversion,,,its like he will do it his way in his time ,,and it will allways suprises us or upset us a little ,,becasue he did it a littel diffent in others then in us ,,i like the apostals pauls conversion wam bam thank you mam ,, now go preach

 2014/6/20 6:33Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

lol it makes me happy and giggle when i think back its still fresh ,,,,i was born with a bible in my hand ,,so you could imagine im verry biast when it comes to the bible ,,it was the first thing i saw and his sweet sweet presence was the first thing i felt i dont know if felt is the right word ,,it was more like i saw that in some strange way it was that real ,,,,when i think about it i shake my head still and wonder why he did that to a wretcherd man like me ,,how totaly undeserving i am ,it is beoned words how undeserving i am of gods grace ,,and that feels it so right to feel that way that words fail to describe that fully as well

 2014/6/20 6:50Profile









 Re:

Krautfrau writes.........

"it was when I saw the Lord on the cross in my mind's eye, and His holy presence filled the room and knew that He had done it for me, that repentance came and I knew that I was a sinner. It took a while before I was convicted of some of my sins like smoking."

Amen sister. It was two years after I was saved that I was delivered from smoking. I tried to quit and failed a couple of times after being saved. One night in the kitchen the Lord asked me to think about the next day without smoking. I thought about every part of the day and how smoking was such an integral part of every part of the day. The Lord was showing me just how much in bondage I was in. I had, at that point in my life been smoking two packs a day for a number of years. He spoke into my heart and told me that if I did not smoke again that night, that I would never smoke again. That was 21 years ago. He is God that delivers...........bro Frank

 2014/6/20 9:12
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: My conversion was like that; it was when I saw the Lord on the cross in my mind's eye, and His holy presence filled the room and knew that He had done it for me, that repentance came and I knew that I was a sinner.

We will never really know anything about surrender until we understand what John 3:16 means, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son”. God completely and absolutely gave Himself to us. In our surrender, we must give ourselves to God in the same way He gave Himself for us totally, unconditionally, and without reservation.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Roms 12:1

A. “I beseech you” the verb used here is a strong word and very hard to render into English “I beg you earnestly,” or “I entreat you,” or “I exhort you.” It has a deep meaning, as if God were on His knees before His people, begging them to give themselves over to Him.

B. “Brethren” tells of who Paul was speaking to, and that to become a living sacrifice, you must at first be saved!

C. “Bodies” is the term for the whole man ... Body, soul and spirit!

D. “Holy, acceptable unto God.” Old Testament sacrifices were without spot and that’s how God wants us! Then he says, “Which is your reasonable service.” God doesn’t ask us to do anything unreasonable!


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Colin Murray

 2014/6/20 10:51Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

brothagary, I did not realize you were “technically sharing your testimony”. I thought you were giving a very brief account of your conversion and sharing some of your views on Calvinism. But thanks for sharing. The way God works in our lives is sometimes so deep it is hard to understand or explain it.

Respectfully brothers and sisters, the thing we must keep in mind is that we cannot base our beliefs on our feelings or sentiments which can deceive us. We must stand upon the solid foundation of God’s Word because He cannot lie. We must test our feelings, sentiments and experiences in light of His infallible Word. If our experience or belief contradicts the clear teaching of the Word, guess who’s wrong? Like Jeremiah said, the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.

Repentance and faith are like two sides of the same coin. You cannot have one without the other. In saving faith we look to and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, as Frank posted we entrust our souls into His hand. At the same time that we do that, we look away from, and turn from our old self-life. It’s a u turn, as we gaze upon and turn to the One who loved us and gave Himself for us.

Regarding the issue of smoking, I remember Chuck Smith saying that if you are saved smoking cigarettes will not damn you to hell, it will only bring you to heaven quicker. Some of you may be familiar with the account of Spurgeon and Moody meeting one time in Spurgeon’s office. The story goes that as Spurgeon pulled out one of his cigars and lit it Moody pointed at the cigar and said, “That offends me.” Then Spurgeon looks at Moody and points at his(Moody's) big belly and says, “That offends me.”


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Oracio

 2014/6/20 11:15Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I have enjoyed participating in this thread and want to thank brother Frank for opening it and everyone else who has posted. Before this thread gets buried never to return I want to share a brief example from experience of how our hearts and feelings can deceive us. And I'd like to give a disclaimer beforehand. I don’t share this in order to say for sure that anyone’s experience was a false conversion. I’m throwing this out in case anyone reading this might possibly be trusting in a false conversion experience in which they are being deceived.

In that brief testimony I shared, I mentioned a religious experience I had at the age of 18. What I didn’t mention there was that when I cried out to God at that time I had an overwhelming sense of the loving presence of God at that moment. I felt as if I could hear God saying to me, “I love you son, trust in Me.” I do not doubt that that was a real encounter with the living God in which I experienced His mercy in a great measure. I also experienced a certain kind of “repentance” on account of my sins but it was because I felt I had been caught and was being punished. It was not genuine saving repentance but a worldly sorrow leading to spiritual death which the Bible mentions.

And after that I really believed with all my heart that I was right with God for those two months of going to church and abstaining from certain vices. After I really got born again at the age of 22 I struggled with accepting that I had had a false conversion. After all, it had seemed so real, and who wants to admit they were deceived with a false religious experience? But upon serious reflection in light of God’s Word I realized and acknowledged it was a false conversion and it became more clear afterward.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/6/20 16:04Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

I am interested in your testimony, and I have a couple of questions.

Oracio Quote: It was not genuine saving repentance.

What would define as genuine saving repentance?

Oracio Quote: I struggled with accepting that I had had a false conversion.

Who told you your conversion was false in the first instance?


_________________
Colin Murray

 2014/6/20 17:32Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

murrcolr, I'll do my best to answer those questions asap. Unfortunately, I have to run right now and don't know when I'll be able to sit down again to post. God bless.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/6/20 18:34Profile









 Re:

Hi Oracio,

At the age of seven my mom gave her heart to the Lord. Much chaos and violence followed in our house. At the age of eight, I gave my heart to the Lord, 42 years ago. I loved everything about God in a very dark situation. As the situation grinded on, I walked away from the Lord in my early teens. My mom came and told me the Lord told her " Frank has gone into the world." I had no defense to that charge. I had been beaten down and now I was going to take on the world by its own terms. Alcohol and drugs became my escape, and girls.

The whole time I knew I had walked away. I knew in my heart that if I died I would go to hell. It was a certainty in my spirit. I simply got drunker and more stoned and more women. I got married at 17 and continued to live an exceedingly sin-ful life, sins I would never share such was my own debasement. Our first child died and we buried him. There was not much left of my heart after that. My second son was burned 60% when I was 21. This finished me off and plunged me into a world of extreme darkness. Now six years later I called out to God one night. He heard me, of that I have no doubt. All through these years I knew I was lost and hell awaited me. Yet this following year after crying out to God would prove to be the worse year of all. All through that year Jesus was talking to me.

Sometimes in that year, in pubs, I would talk to my fellow drunks and tell them about this God I had known and that he was the true way. They would laugh at me and point out that if this was correct, what was I doing in this pub so drunk and not following Him myself. One night God spoke to me so clearly in my heart. He said " I want you to imagine a man wandering through the desert at death's door, in desperate need of water. He suddenly sees a canteen of water in the distance and stumbles toward it, his heart beginning to rejoice that he would be saved. He picks up the canteen of water and suddenly he realizes it was empty. He curses the canteen and threw it down in disgust. I would curse the canteen too." Then the Lord said to me " you are the canteen." It shook me to me core. Several months after that and after years of counting the cost I came forward at a little church and " gave my life to Jesus."

Now at this point you usually hear things like " a great weight was lifted," or people talk about being full of joy. I did not experience this, in fact quite the opposite. For two full weeks I was tormented, tormented to the point where I thought I was going to lose my mind. Foul thoughts filled me. The second Sunday after having gone forward I was sitting in this church and thought my head was going to explode and I got up to walk out of there and suddenly the woman playing the piano, stopped playing and began to speak in tongues and it stopped me in my tracks. I could hear the Lord speak to me. He said " Frank......look up" I looked up and I could see the cross with our dear Lord and Savior hanging there. I looked down and I could see myself kneeling beneath the cross. I knew that my sins had put Him there. I could see the blood begin to roll down His Body and my eyes became focused on a single drop of blood.

I could see it run down His feet, onto His toes and drip off His toes and the Blood landed directly on top of my head. In an instance the battle , the onslaught that had been raging in my mind was over. I would never experience such a thing again. I walked out of there in peace. But for the next six months I was at every altar call and I cried a river over every aspect of my life as God worked in me.

That is my own unconventional road to giving my whole life to Jesus. That was 23 years ago. God is good and through many trials and tribulations and fiery furnaces and scourgings, and multiple blessings, He has shaped me and He has slowly and surely put all the pieces of a thoroughly broken and sin scarred life back together as only He could............bro Frank

 2014/6/21 0:41
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

im not sure if your are saying that oraco to me becasue of what i said about my conversion ,,,somtimes i wish people would just say exact who they are talking about instead of giving hints,,it save us wasting our time wondering and responding

definitly i would not go by feelings ,,,,,


but we do have the witness of the spirit and the peace that passes all understanding and the joy unspeakable as evedences and these can probable be defined as feelings ,,,so i wouldn jump to any conculsions and assume some one had a false conversion just becasue you think you did and becasue some one talks abou the the wintess of the spirit and joy and peace ,becasue that is a deviding line between a carnal man and a spiritual man who has been reborn ,,,,,we should never ever lesen the substance of thoses thing in favour of other fruits of the spirit ,,,,becasue fruits are fruits the bible does not elavaite some fruit above others ,,,just becase some people emphises one group of fruits rather then others doesnt indacate they had a fasle conversion ,,,we need to watch out for judging wrongly due to our own perceived experence


also with converion we must also give room for back sliding ,,,which can and does accour in a persons life and somtimes verry near there conversion ,,this can and does give a fasle view of a persons standing ,,,,,fruits need to be looked at, from the past present and into the future to to get a good view of the life stile of our selfs or others ,,,if we look at a christian who has fallen into sin like the one in the leter of corinthians ,,,,many would say look look ,see he has bad fruit ,,is not realy a christian ,,,but if we look at the leters of paul we see he is a brothers in christ and not a fasle brethern ,,as in the leter of john ,,where it say they went out from us becasue they were NOT OF US if they were OF US they would have continued WITH US

things are only black and white in there right context

 2014/6/21 0:44Profile





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