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I find that the imperative that 'we must seek Jesus alone' to be rather vague and neither does it tell us how to do it.
The Holy Spirit ever points to Jesus. When I am tempted to be proud, I hear, "Come unto me.." When I am tempted to be discouraged, I hear, "Come unto me..." When I am tempted to lust, I hear, "Come unto me..." When I am tempted to be unloving, unmerciful, unkind, I hear, "Come unto me..." When I yield (surrender) and come, I am made perfect by virtue of His perfection. I don't know your experience, but when I come to Jesus I suddenly find all the water for which I thirst. Immediately, my thirst for humility is quenched. My thirst for compassion is quenched. My thirst for longsuffering is quenched. This is because I come to the Whole Source and not just seek a component of the Source. If I pray, "Lord, give me humility" I hear in response, "Come unto me..."
Paul Frederick West
| 2014/6/14 16:11||Profile|
| Re: |
Then l don't understand what come unto me means. I do know that when l have felt united to Him, He has been my all and was all sufficient in every way, and enabled me to overcome everything of the flesh, the world and the enemy, but l have not been able to come through will power, l must wait for Him to grant His presence.
"In His hands He hideth the light and commands it to come again. He sheweth His friend concerning it, that it is His possession and that he may ascend to it" Job 36.32-36.
I have found that the only way that He will come is when l am obeying the light He has given me already, and to not do that, is to disrespect Him and expect a cheap salvation. It is not depending on something else it is respect.
I understand from your words, that you mean, turning to look towards Jesus rather than coming to Him which is a matter of obedience then waiting.
| 2014/6/14 17:04|
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Paul, did you read the OP? .......bro Frank
| 2014/6/14 17:46|
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Paul, did you read the OP?
Yes, and I agree with it. I think the term "absolute surrender" as coined by Andrew Murray was meant to signify a post-conversion experience whereby a believer crosses a threshold of willful abandon. At one time I subscribed to this mystic experience, but now I am not so sure of its validity (scriptural or otherwise). I don't know if the term "absolute" is wise to use spiritually, unless it refers to salvation. As I see it, only God works absolutes; men (even the best of men) are transient at will. But I do agree that there is a dynamic of "surrender" which precedes (or simultaneously happens at) conversion, the matter of when it occurs being a theological point.
Paul Frederick West
| 2014/6/14 19:33||Profile|
| Re: What is absolute surrender?|
"This prayer, 'Yes Father!', must become like second nature to us by the time persecution breaks out. We must start training ourselves now, so that every time our heart produces a No to God's leadings, it will be turned into a Yes. It is vital that we declare war on the spirit of defiance that arises in our heart when our will is thwarted. We must learn to submit to others, since it it ultimately God who ordains the course of life. This must all take place now - on the eve of persecution. So let us pray, 'By the time persecution comes, let my will be completely knit to Your will through repeated commitments to suffering.'"
- Basilea Schlink, "The Eve of Persecution"
| 2014/6/14 20:58||Profile|
| Re: |
"Yes, and I agree with it. I think the term "absolute surrender" as coined by Andrew Murray was meant to signify a post-conversion experience whereby a believer crosses a threshold of willful abandon. At one time I subscribed to this mystic experience, but now I am not so sure of its validity (scriptural or otherwise). I don't know if the term "absolute" is wise to use spiritually, unless it refers to salvation. As I see it, only God works absolutes; men (even the best of men) are transient at will. But I do agree that there is a dynamic of "surrender" which precedes (or simultaneously happens at) conversion, the matter of when it occurs being a theological point."
Thank you for the clarification brother, we certainly agree. .........bro Frank
| 2014/6/14 22:19|
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It is good to be in in agreement. I believe that 'absolute surrender' as coined by Murray was not a helpful term to use as well all absolutely surrender ourselves when we come to Christ as we have been saying, and using the term as he meant it, l think made that initial stage to be less than ii is and to also alienate others. Indeed as Paul has said, only God works in absolutes and man can only receive what he is given. We can do nothing apart from being willing to receive the heavenly vision. I think that we can all agree also that the Lord restores us when we go astray, and when we mistake working in the flesh for working in the Spirit, and repent of that and find ourselves on another level of being, having the power of God unleashed in us so that He has more of us than previously. More filled because we are more empty.
| 2014/6/15 2:13|
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" I think that we can all agree also that the Lord restores us when we go astray, and when we mistake working in the flesh for working in the Spirit, and repent of that and find ourselves on another level of being, having the power of God unleashed in us so that He has more of us than previously. More filled because we are more empty."
Amen sister..........bro Frank
| 2014/6/15 11:56|
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The Sinner's Surrender To His Preserver.
by Charles spurgeon
I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? - Job 7:20.
Job could defend himself before men, but he used another tone when bowing before the Lord: there he cried,"I have sinned." The words would suit any afflicted saint; for, indeed, they were uttered by such an one; but they may also be used by the penitent sinner, and we will on this occasion direct them to that use.
1. A CONFESSION. "I have sinned."
In words this is no more than a hypocrite, nay, a Judas, might say. Do not many call themselves "miserable sinners" who are indeed despicable mockers? Yet seeing Job's heart was right his confession was accepted.
1. It was very brief, but yet very full. It was more full in its generality than if he had descended to particulars. We may use it as a summary of our life: "I have sinned." What else is certain in my whole career? This is most sure and undeniable.
2. It was personal. I have sinned, whatever others may have done.
3. It was to the Lord. He addresses the confession not to his fellowman but to the Preserver of men.
4. It was a confession wrought by the Spirit. See verse 18, where he ascribes his grief to the visitation of God.
5. It was sincere. No complimentary talk, or matter of ritualistic form, or passing acknowledgment. His heart cried,"I have sinned;" and he meant it.
6. It was feeling. He was cut to the quick by it. Read the whole chapter. This one fact, "I have sinned;' is enough to brand the soul with the mark of Cain, and burn it with the flames of hell.
7. It was a believing confession. Mingled with much unbelief Job still had faith in God's power to pardon. An unbelieving confession may increase sin.
II. AN INQUIRY. "What shall I do unto thee?"
In this question we see,—
1. His willingness to do anything, whatever the Lord might demand, thus proving his earnestness.
2. His bewilderment: he could not tell what to offer, or where to turn; yet something must be done.
3. His surrender at discretion. He makes no conditions, he only begs to know the Lord's terms.
4. The inquiry may be answered negatively.
o What can I do to escape thee? Thou art all around me.
o Can past obedience atone? Alas! As I look back I am unable to find anything in my life but sin.
o Can I bring a sacrifice? Would grief, fasting, long prayers, ceremonies, or self-denial avail? I know they would not.
5. It may be answered evangelically:
o Confess the sin."If we confess our sins," etc.
o Renounce it. By his grace we can"cease to do evil and learn to do well."
o Obey the message of peace: believe in the Lord Jesus and live.
III. A TITLE. "O thou preserver of men!"
Observer of men, therefore aware of my case, my misery, my confession, my desire for pardon, my utter helplessness.
Preserver of men.
· By his infinite long-suffering refraining from punishment.
· By daily bounties of supply, keeping the ungrateful alive.
· By the plan of salvation, delivering men from going down into the pit, snatching the brands from the burning.
· By daily grace, preventing the backsliding and apostasy of believers. We must view the way and character of God in Christ if we would find comfort; and from his gracious habit of preserving men we infer that he will preserve us, guilty though we be. Address upon the point in hand, —
· The impenitent, urging them to confession.
· The unconcerned, moving them to enquire,"What must we do to be saved?"
· The ungrateful, exhibiting the preserving goodness of God as a motive for love to him.
| 2014/6/15 16:07||Profile|
| Re: What is absolute surrender?|
Thank you Frank for your post of this very important and essential subject for all believers.
Absolute surrender is at the very heart of discipleship, because it takes a total surrender to fully follow Jesus. "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).
Yet how many evangelists and pastors are preaching the gospel of the Kingdom, in which Jesus demands to be everything? We have split up salvation so that sinners are hearing the good news of Jesus paying the price for our sins and giving all those that receive Him eternal life, without hearing much about the absolutes of descipleship, that Jesus Christ must be Lord of all.
Once we have heard the full gospel and go through many dealings of the Holy Spirit, we are then in the position to make an absolute surrender. As we grow spiritually going through many tests and trials, the Holy Spirit makes us aware of things in us that we have yet to surrender to the Lord. Many of us are like the rich young ruler in that there is usually one or two things that we are holding onto, and we thought we were doing good by the 95% that we have surrendered.
Praise God for His mercy, longsuffering and grace toward us, because anything that God demands of us, He will also give us the grace to do what He is requiring of us.
"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12-13).
| 2014/6/15 16:43||Profile|