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 Re:

Murrcolr writes........

'Personally I think we are deluding ourselves if we say we absolutely surrendered at conversion"

That is because , brother, we disagree as to what the term absolute surrender means. I wrote.........

"I believe absolute surrender comes at genuine salvation. It is a hearts attitude that says to God " I give you my life, my whole life, holding nothing back."

My assertion is that this surrender not only comes at salvation, but is vital to it. One cannot be saved unless one gives ones life to Jesus. As I said, it is a heart's attitude and God knows what is genuine and what is not. He then spends a life-time taking that what is right-fully His.

And so we disagree, you say that absolute surrender comes at some point way down the road of our walk, so we are, according to your opinion, all working our way to some kind of total surrender. I say that it comes at the beginning and that is why we are saved in the first place, because we give the Lord our lives, just as we were, still in our sin, crying out to Him and surrendering to Him. He takes it and then He molds it and He finishes it for He is the author and the finisher of our faith and is faithful to complete that which He started. All the glory is His, all the work is His, our's is simply to bend, to yield, to surrender. And to the extent that we do those things, to the same extent are we useful in the Kingdoms work bringing glory to God. And so absolute surrender is to give Him our whole lives. Once given, we are then purchased, bought with a price. It is then a daily walk, a picking up of the cross, a yielding a surrendering. But the ultimate and absolute surrender came when we died, handed over our lives to him and so begins after that the war of the spirit and the flesh...........bro Frank

 2014/6/13 19:53
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: "I believe absolute surrender comes at genuine salvation. It is a hearts attitude that says to God " I give you my life, my whole life, holding nothing back."

Let the Christian be tested to the proof of the question “have they absolutely surrendered at conversion”, and the true position will be exposed.

Let them be forced into making a choice between God and money, between God and men, between God and personal ambition, God and self, God and human love, and God will take second place every time.

However the Christian may protest, the proof is in the choices he makes day after day throughout his life.

Quote: But the ultimate and absolute surrender came when we died, handed over our lives to him and so begins after that the war of the spirit and the flesh.

I will reply with a quote from Towzer.

Towzer quote:

Real faith must always be more than passive acceptance. It dare mean nothing less than surrender of our doomed Adam-life to a merciful end upon the cross. That is, we won God's just sentence against our evil flesh and admit His right to end its unlovely career. We reckon ourselves to have been crucified with Christ and to have risen again to newness of life. Where such faith is, God will always work in line with our reckoning. Then begins the divine conquest of our lives. This God accomplishes by an effective seizing upon, a sharp but love-impelled invasion of our natures. When He has overpowered our resistance He binds us with the cords of love and draws us to Himself. There, "faint with His loveliness" we lie conquered and thank God again and again for the blessed conquest. There, with moral sanity restored, we lift up our eyes and bless the Most High God. Then we go forth in faith to apprehend that for which we were first apprehended of God.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2014/6/14 0:05Profile









 Re:

appolus wrote:

Quote:
And so we disagree, you say that absolute surrender comes at some point way down the road of our walk, so we are, according to your opinion, all working our way to some kind of total surrender. I say that it comes at the beginning and that is why we are saved in the first place, because we give the Lord our lives, just as we were, still in our sin, crying out to Him and surrendering to Him.



I agree that absolute surrender comes at the beginning. We surrender everything we have and commit ourselves to follow the Lord with hearts full of gratitude and love.

But I am sure that there will be agreement, that it is at this point when we really start to learn about ourselves and the very deep damage that is within us. The Lord leads us on pathways which expose ourselves, not so that He knows us, as He already does, but so that we ourselves learn and understand what is within us and how we react to the many testings and trials that ensure.

As the Lord shines His light within, we see dark places that we never knew existed and fail at times when we thought that we would be strong. The journey has been likened to climbing a mountain. We are not delivered to the top when we first know the truth, but we are at the bottom. The journey involves slipping down and regaining our footsteps, reaching places where we stand still for a while or even find a pathway that leads us in the wrong direction and we are lost for a while. Then the light shines and we are back on track.

It is up to us how far up the mountain we reach, and some sadly give up before reaching the top. But if we are determined, for some, there comes a point when the Lord reveals a truth which totally transforms them and takes them to the top, and it is unwise for those who have not reached this point yet in their journey, to discount the witness of many who have.

It is foolish indeed to think that there is no danger around the corner and ignore the warnings of those who are walking in the opposite direction to us, just because we have never faced such a danger.

If we wish to know if we have the truth, it is very easy as Colin says: What is the inner witness? Have we fallen from our first love? Do others see a holy life in us? Does our wife or husband say that we are holy men and women?

The human soul is deep indeed and only the revelation of God can show us whether we are surrendering all. Of course we believe that we are until there comes a point where we are clearly shown that we have been blind and we should never close our minds to the possibility of this, and the knowledge that we have been wrong. It is not humility to believe otherwise.

 2014/6/14 4:16









 Re:

I love the Tozer quote but the opening sentence does not relate to the subject at hand. I was not talking about passive acceptance, I was talking about a real absolute surrender that God recognizes. A passive acceptance is another topic.

I agree with Krautfrau 99% :) We could have a long conversation about the top of the mountain and those who claim to stand there but I do not want this thread to be about sinless perfection as this subject has been covered ad nauseam. The subject for me is simply the act of absolute surrender and when it occurs and how we proceed from there, so I am glad we agree sister..........bro Frank

 2014/6/14 9:02
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re:

What is absolute surrender? I don't know, I haven't been there yet.


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Mr. Bill

 2014/6/14 10:13Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re: What is absolute surrender?

Quote:
I believe absolute surrender comes at genuine salvation. It is a hearts attitude that says to God " I give you my life, my whole life, holding nothing back." I then believe that sanctification is a process whereby God takes what has been freely given to Him. We are not now our own, we have been bought by a price, the blood of Jesus. The more we give to God, the more we live out that surrender actually. The more we empty ourselves of the things of this world and the flesh, the more the world will see Jesus. We must decrease and He must increase. Yet, the work is all the Lord's and He gets all the glory. He does this work for his will and good pleasure. He heals, He restores He replaces the things that the locusts have devoured, He refines. He, through the Holy Spirit sanctifies, we surrender. So, ultimately surrender is a response to God. How we respond determines how we live and how we glorify God, which is our chief end in this life.....bro Frank


Amen! I would be in agreement with those who see it as Lordship salvation as distinguished from the cheap grace message preached and heard by multitudes today.


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Oracio

 2014/6/14 11:52Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

To answer the question simply, it is total conviction, as to the level that you are at, that the Lord Jesus Christ is everything.

What I mean is this, I do not seek to surrender, I seek Jesus. For in Him are the true spiritual realities of truth found not in my attempts to do so.


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2014/6/14 14:14Profile









 Re:

Thank you Frank.

Brenda

 2014/6/14 14:27
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
What I mean is this, I do not seek to surrender, I seek Jesus. For in Him are the true spiritual realities of truth found not in my attempts to do so.


Yes, that's right. As soon as you begin seeking for things like "absolute surrender" or "holiness" or "complete perfection" or whatever it may be, you have overlooked the entire orchard while looking for a single petunia, for in Christ Jesus is encapsulated all we seek. When a Christian seeks humility, for example, he is seeking for a mere component of the fullness which is to be found in Christ.

My experience has been as soon as I begin looking for "component enhancement", these areas are the very ones in which I soon fail. If I seek humility, I become proud. If I seek surrender, I find myself soon again entangled with a besetting sin. These failures usually come after a period of "victory" in these very areas. From other mature saints I have spoken with, my experience in this is not unique.

Saints, we must seek Jesus Christ alone, and when we are His and He is ours, all of His will be ours, just as all of God's is His. This means we will have His complete surrender to His Father's will, His humility, His love, His patience, His fidelity, His compassion, His kindness, His temperance, His faith, His very mind. The secret to all Christian fullness is summated in Jesus Christ: the Sum of all components.

He gives us all we need at the level we are at because He gives of Himself. The size of the vessel does not alter the integrity of the Water. Water is water regardless if it fills a drinking glass, a bucket, or a river. Maturity simply marks an increase in the vessel's size. To the level of grace our present maturity in God calls for, this exact level will be proffered unto us -- and this is our perfection, for perfection is not attained but effortlessly obtained in a Person who inhabits the imperfect vessel through grace.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2014/6/14 15:42Profile









 Re:

I find that the imperative that 'we must seek Jesus alone' to be rather vague and neither does it tell us how to do it. We all want to know Him more and have a more authentic sense of His presence. That goes without saying. But we need guidance in our seeking. Our goals are not the tools of the search. I don't think anyone says or believes that. We all know that to have more humility, and to have more holy lives is to be closer to Christ. Those who are seeking qualities of enhanced human characteristics are not on the spiritual pathway and I don't think it applies to anyone here. The brothers and sisters on this site are seeking Christ.

Submission to His revealed will for us is not to be overlooked, or indicating that we are not on the right path. It is absolutely vital. If we are not submitted to all that He has already spoken to us about, then we have gone astray and seeking an unholy Jesus.

 2014/6/14 15:58





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