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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Random Sermon of the Week (6/8/14-6/14/14)

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ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

From the sounds of things most people are Americans first and Christians second.


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2014/6/11 11:09Profile









 Re:

Zeke, please elaborate a little to make your point clearer because your statement doesn't seem to bear any relation to this topic or the sermon any of the comments on this thread, thank you brother.

 2014/6/11 11:17
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Awakened,

Please note that I went out of my way to limit criticism of Dean Odle in any personal way. I assumed that he was in a time constraint. I believe God speaks in dreams and visions. I believe we are in the last of the last days before Jesus returns. I agree with Dean that there is no pretrib rapture, although I admit I am less than certain on the matter.

We are invited to critique and comment and parse truth in these sermons. I stand by what I said. If it was one of those "well you just had to be there" deals, I wish our random choice of sermon for the week had landed elsewhere. Becsuse this one has some issues that may reflect less than fairly on our brother.


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Tim

 2014/6/11 13:00Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 785


 Re:

Brothers,

I don't know Dean Odle and other than being clearly charasmatic (went to his website), there is nothing on the website that suggests he is a man of ill character. I don't think that listening to these random sermons should venture that route, anyhow. Let us do what the Scriptures encourage us to do in these situations:

1) Look at the Word of God and see if what He is saying is true.

2) If he prophesies, then we need to wait to see if it comes to pass. If it does not, then we know that he was speaking, just as the scriptures admonish us: "when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him." (Deut 18:22).

 2014/6/11 14:12Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

awakened,

You will have to look very hard anywhere on the earth to find the church as introspective about its nations spiritual status than America as if they are connected at the hip. Quite possibly that may be its inherent problem.


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2014/6/11 14:16Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5273
NC, USA

 Re:

awakened--

I understand what you are saying. The only problem is that EVERYONE seems to be saying that America will be subject of nuclear holocaust. How many Hollywood movies have been made about this? I can name 3 real quick... Planet of the Apes, Terminator and Panic in the Year Zero.

Should we give those films prophetic weight? Or should we just chalk them up to speculative fiction? And if a Christian makes such prophecies how long of we give them to come true and when do they have to apologize? 50 years? 10 years? 1000 years?

Bad things are always happening all over the world. And have always happened. So such general predictions are hard to take seriously and you certainly dont have to be a Christian to make them.


_________________
Todd

 2014/6/11 14:19Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 785


 Re:

I do believe that God will judge the nations, but I do not believer that America has a special judgment planned out for it.

Many Americans think that this country, like the people of Israel, are in covenant with God. There is only 1 problem:
It takes 2 parties in agreement to make a covenant valid. Even if people did found this country and dedicate it to the Lord, that doesn't make us a covenant people. Especially since the Lord Himself did not ratify the covenant.

Not only that, but I believe America is living proof that there is no other covenant with God will EVER pan out except that which is founded through the blood of Jesus Christ.

If I make a covenant with God that everyone at my work will follow Him, it makes no difference because 1) God has to also agree to it, and 2) Apart from a marvelous work of the Holy Spirit, no one else is going to agree.

 2014/6/11 17:12Profile









 Re:

Dolfan, I agree, poor random choice for brother Dean...maybe next time:)

TMK, like I said, its food for thought that's all. What if brother Dean and David Wilkerson are right? What if God is going to judge America?

This nation is made up of PEOPLE...people that the Lord loves and died for but they are still people who either live to please him or who become a people who's sins are so egregious that the Lord allows her to be destroyed. Maybe we are not there yet but look at the filth that has permeated the world because of America. As someone else stated somewhere, there has never been a people in the history of the world who have done more to propagate and promote the homosexual cause than America. I pondered that remark and wondered what it was that brought the tipping point to Sodom and Gomorrah? What sent them down into the abyss from which there was no turning back? I heard someone recently say they felt to leave this country because it had become so much like Sodom and Gomorrah over the homosexual issue that they sensed in their spirit that God was going to judge the nation because of it...so they packed up and left!!!

Again, lots of food for thought. Maybe nothing but paranoia but it may be the Lord is warning us before hand to get ready because things are going to get very messed up around here.

 2014/6/11 17:15









 Re:

Quote:
Many Americans think that this country, like the people of Israel, are in covenant with God.


Yes many do, because they have been taught wrong. But is this what Dean is saying? That America has a special covenant with God, like Israel?

Obviously God doesn't have to explain Himself if He allows America to be attacked by terrorists or come to economic ruin. He doesn't even explain when bad things happen to good people, so who am I to figure this stuff out? The bottom line is that certain people believe that America as a nation is about to land in a mess of hurt. I think there is a lot of writing on the wall to suggest that it will get much, much worse and if I know anything about Gods character He will allow anyone or any nation to reap what they have sown, imho the reaping has begun!

 2014/6/11 17:31
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5273
NC, USA

 Re:

I was thinking about this on the way home from work today.

Back before WW2 or when WWII started, were any Christian leaders saying that America was coming under judgment? Or that the whole world was? I mean- 50-80 million people died in WW2.

The US had over 407,000 killed. That is very hard to imagine. Other countries had far more. By comparison, since 2001 the war in Afghanistan has claimed only around 3400 American lives and Americans are up in arms about that.

In WW1 the Germans had up to 2 million killed. Incredible! Then in WW2 they had up to 4.4 million dead and AMAZINGLY the USSR had up to 13.85 million killed.

I guess what I am saying is back then it seemed a whole lot worse "war and rumors of wars" wise than it does now. Was anybody saying that this was due to God's judgment? Were Christians saying "get ready for the rapture?" If not, why not? I have very little knowledge about this and I am curious about it.

I do know that Art Katz believed that the Holocaust was God's judgment on the Jewish people and that essentially it didn't work to turn them to repentance. I know this view is pretty unpopular but that is what he believed and taught. He also believes that the Holocaust was "child's play" compared to what is soon to come upon the Jewish people worldwide, even in the United States. I find that so hard to comprehend but like I said earlier anything is possible.


_________________
Todd

 2014/6/11 18:01Profile





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