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 Re:

Paul, your thoughts and comments are full of wisdom, insight & grace.

Thank you

 2014/6/4 19:10









 Re: Self Examination

Really appreciate all the input, brothers and sisters. Very good discussions and insights. It is good to stir one another up in the faith.
Like Oracio mentioned, many scriptures say the same things. Colossians 3 and 4 have the same kind of exhortations and admonitions as The List. Whether or not it was written before the Wesley's were born again shouldn't bother those who are born again.

Well, I guess a re-publican is just a re-peat of a publican, 'dolfan' and 'sidewalk'. :-)

L

 2014/6/4 20:27
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 Re:

Quote:
TWENTY TWO QUESTIONS

THE HOLY CLUB, TO WHICH JOHN WESLEY

BELONGED, ASKED THEMSELVES EACH DAY

AS A PART OF THEIR DAILY DEVOTIONS

1. AM I CONSCIOUSLY OR UNCONSCIOUSLY CREATING THE IMPRESSION THAT I AM BETTER THAN I REALLY AM? IN OTHER WORDS AM I A HYPOCRITE?

2. AM I HONEST IN ALL MY ACTS AND WORKS, OR DO I EXAGGERATE?

3. DO I CONFIDENTLY PASS ON TO ANOTHER WHAT WAS TOLD ME IN CONFIDENCE

4. CAN I BE TRUSTED?

5. AM I A SLAVE TO DRESS, FRIENDS, WORK OR HABIT?

6. AM I SELF CONSCIOUS, SELF PITYING OR SELF JUSTIFYING?

7. DID THE BIBLE LIVE IN ME TODAY?

8. DO I GIVE IT TIME TO SPEAK TO ME EVERDAY?

9. AM I ENJOYING PRAYER?

10. WHEN DID I LAST SPEAK TO SOMEONE ELSE ABOUT MY FAITH?

11. DO I PRAY ABOUT THE MONEY I SPEND?

12. DO I GO TO BED ON TIME AND GET UP ON TIME?

13. DO I DISOBEY GOD IN ANYTHING?

14. DO I INSIST UPON DOING SOMETHING ABOUT WHICH MY CONSCIENCE IS UNEASY?

15. AM I DEFEATED IN ANY PART OF MY LIFE?

16. AM I JEALOUS, IMPURE, CRITICAL, IRRITABLE, TOUCHY, OR DISTRUSTFUL?

17. HOW DO I SPEND MY SPARE TIME?

18. AM I PROUD?

19. DO I THANK GOD THAT I AM NOT AS OTHER PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE PHARISEE WHO DESPISED THE REPUBLICAN?

20. DO I GRUMBLE OR COMPLAIN CONSTANTLY?

21. IS THERE ANYONE WHO I FEAR, DISLIKE, DISOWN, CRITICIZE, HOLD A RESENTMENT TOWARD OR DISAGREE? IF SO WHAT AM I DOING ABOUT IT?

22. IS CHRIST REAL TO ME?

‘GIVE ME ONE HUNDRED PREACHERS WHO FEAR NOTHING BUT SIN, AND DESIRE NOTHING BUT GOD, AND I CARE NOT A STRAW WHETHER THEY BE CLERGYMEN OR LAYMEN; SUCH ALONE WILL SHAKE THE GATES OF HELL AND SET UP THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ON EARTH. GOD DOES NOTHING BUT IN ANSWER TO PRAYER’. JOHN WESLEY




Dear saints,

It is sad to hear the arguing about this.

We must rather look at this list and our lives and see a place where we can pray to the Lord to help us glorify Him more. That is not legalism but relationship with Jesus Christ to see Him beautiful in us.


AM I SELF CONSCIOUS, SELF PITYING OR SELF JUSTIFYING?


that struck me that I need to forget the SELF. Lord please help me to focus more on you and less on SELF.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/6/4 20:52Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Whether or not it was written before the Wesley's were born again shouldn't bother those who are born again.



I would think it matters a great deal "when" their list was written. If it was written by religious men who were seeking to be saved by their works, were they not therefore asking themselves the question, "am I holy enough"? If they were not yet born again, it would seem that their devotions were flawed...and can it be argued that they were seeking to become holy by their own efforts?

If that is the case, how does this list have any more power in it to save our souls than a list created by a muslim or a member of a false cult?

If the light that Wesley and Whitfield had at the time was works based salvation (someone clarify if you know the answer) then perhaps we should be very careful looking unto lists such as this? As others have said, let us instead "look unto Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith".

 2014/6/4 20:57
Heydave
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 Re:

Awakenened, Who claimed this list had the power to save souls?!

If it were written by unsaved men, then it should shame us who claim to be saved! The fact that so many react against things like this is a sad indictment against the modern church.

I agree with the poster thst it is a valid thing to consider. If all we need to hear is "look unto Jesus", then why all the NT definitions about what Godly living looks like? Why all the preacing and teaching every Sunday?


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Dave

 2014/6/5 2:34Profile
davidc
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 Re: Gods standard

The list is good, but most of us haven’t got a clue as to how far all of us fall short of God’s standards of perfection and holiness. MrBillPro



But the scripture doesn't say we fall short of God's standard, but rather

For all have sinned and fallen short of the GLORY OF GOD

ONly Jesus has ascended into Glory. He is our true goal. Standards of perfection and holiness put us under the curse of the law.

Grace brings; in Christ, into sharing His Glory.

David


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david

 2014/6/5 3:23Profile
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 Re:

"Standards of perfection and holiness put us under the curse of the law."

sounds like a contemporary slogan that makes no sense whatsoever, but keeps you where you are right now,

only because you think higher standards put anyone under a curse, does not mean Jesus, Matt, Paul or John would agree:

Matthew 5:48  Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2 Corinthians 13:11  Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Revelation 3:2  Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.


 2014/6/5 4:59Profile









 Re:

Quote:
"..this list was written when John and Charles Wesley were not converted. The list was originally written around 1729 and they were converted in 1738. For many years John and Charles Wesley were strict in their devotion to “religion”. Their life during that time is a prime example of the fact that someone can be so devout in “Christianity” yet come short of true conversion."



I will only join in here to point out that the above statement is in fact false and the proof of it is in the great sermon that John preached at St. Mary's, Oxford, before the University, on January 1, 1733 and named "Circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter." from Romans 2:29.

Written 5 years before Aldesgate and during the time that John and his Holy Club were seeking the experience that he found there, and also known as the second blessing, hence the questionaire, he said,

"3. That "circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;" -- that the distinguishing mark of a true follower of Christ, of one who is in a state of acceptance with God, is not either outward circumcision, or baptism, or any other outward form, but a right state of soul, a mind and spirit renewed after the image of Him that created it; -- is one of those important truths that can only be spiritually discerned. And this the Apostle himself intimates in the next words, -- "Whose praise is not of men, but of God." As if he had said, "Expect not, whoever thou art, who thus followest thy great Master, that the world, the one who follow him not, will say, `Well done, good and faithful servant!' Know that the circumcision of the heart, the seal of thy calling, is foolishness with the world. Be content to wait for thy applause till the day of thy Lord's appearing. In that day shalt thou have praise of God, in the great assembly of men and angels."

If the full sermon is read, one will see that it is not from a man who believes that good works makes a man righteous before God. He was indeed born of the Spirit when he preached this sermon and before Aldesgate, despite how others would like to alter history to fit in with their theology.

 2014/6/5 5:35
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re: Self Examination

When I read the list I make excuses for the ones I miss and pat myself on the back for the ones I "pass."

Both reactions are terrible, so now I have added to the list. Just being honest.

The HS must bring conviction; reading a list won't do it.

Do I trust the HS enough to convict me where I need to be convicted, especially if we pray that He will do so?

I agree with Paul- we don't examine ourselves to see if we have kept a certain checklist; we examine ourselves to see if Christ is in us, the hope of glory.


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Todd

 2014/6/5 6:26Profile
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re: Self Examination

Greetings

As I read over this list I find myself doing to things, first for each one that I did not struggle with today I give thanks unto HIM. It was and is only by HIS grace and mercy that I did not struggle in that area today.They are areas I have prayed about and HE has helped me to overcome! The second things I do is consider each area of my life that I did struggle with today and I pray. I seek HIM asking for help to over come, to walk by faith knowing HE is all that I need. Whether I am praise HIM for helping me overcome or seeking HIM to help me overcome I am reminded that each day I need to begin in prayer seeking HIM and relying only on HIM in all things...


"FATHER I pray as I look to YOU, search my heart. Help me to see the things in my life that are not of YOU. Help me to have a soft heart willing to die to self and to repent. LORD daily I walk and daily I might stumble but by YOUR grace and mercy there is forgiveness and hope. Through YOU I can over come this sin in my life because YOU give me all that I need. I have to stay close, I have to hold tight though because there will never be a moment or a day that goes by that I will not need YOU. LORD thank you for this reminder that the flesh is weak, but YOU are strong. Thank YOU for this reminder that YOU long to have me walk with YOU in all righteousness. In YOUR WORD YOU tell me, 13 "Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

I pray LORD let this be my heart every moment of every day to walk with YOU and submit my life unto YOU. YOU alone are so worthy and YOU alone are so capable to see me through to the end. Amen!"

 2014/6/5 7:13Profile





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