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 External vs. Internal

Can someone help me why most of the church (yes, even here) is concerned with external things? I.e. the laws of the land (gay marriage...abortion...) but not focusing on the self righteousness, lack of christian service in our communities, and holiness within?

I see American Christians caught up in 'our culture' worried it's being 'decayed' and 'devoid of God'. But Jesus' focus was all about people's hearts.

Does anyone have any idea on how we can refocus the church into a ministry that looked more like Jesus? (If you believe external things look like Jesus, please reread the gospels, prophets, and torah.)

 2014/5/6 12:58
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 980
Pineville, LA

 Re: External vs. Internal

For the exact same reason a doctor will treat the symptoms of a disease--1) He doesn't know what is causing the problem. 2) He doesn't know how to solve the problem.

 2014/5/6 13:32Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Because griping about how bad things are in the culture does not require me to get involved personally. It is something that we expect our Christian <ahem> politicians to deal with.

It is easier to amen Rush or Hannity than to serve in a soup kitchen. It just is.


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Todd

 2014/5/6 15:56Profile
jujashan4
Member



Joined: 2009/1/11
Posts: 77


 Re: External vs. Internal

Great point :-)
It seems to me often that we're more concerned about the unrighteousness of the world (which is without Christ) than we are concerned about the state of the church (Christ's body).
We are aliens here, citizens of another kingdom.
To answer your question, I believe we should earnestly pray and pray and pray, particularly if we can do so with others.


_________________
Andrew Wales

 2014/5/7 7:53Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re: External vs. Internal

I'm teaching on this tonight at our church, actually. And, the question is "What In The World Is God Doing?" . The answer is revival and awakening. China, Iran, Brazil and it seems even Mexico is beginning to stir. I'm going to, thanks to materials and speakers on Sermon Index, outline some of the activity of the Holy Spirit around the world. Then we are going to plea for us to repent and pray and seek God here. I'm going to share the bulk of the facts of Duncan Campbell's account of the Hebrides revival....again, thanks to SI. We will ask the question, and insist that God will hold us to account, of why, when God is reviving His work in the midst of the years, why do we keep buying and working for and seeking what does not satisfy (Isaiah 55)? We will plea with our people to repent and to seek God as the two sisters and the pastor and church leaders did in Hebrides. We will explicitly pinpoint our city, the church climate in our community and our own church as in need of repentance and revival.


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Tim

 2014/5/7 8:16Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re: Being His servant

I missed that passage where Jesus commands the disciples to go into all the world and mind their own business.

He Himself is the Light of the world, and those in Him are also lights. They expose what darkness hides, they are both a fragrance of sweet attraction to those who hear God, and a stench of death to those who only feed their own lusts.

In all, His genuine ones make a difference in their own homes, in churches, in cities and in nations.

The eyes of the Lord range to and fro about the whole earth, seeking someone in whom He can show Himself to be strong.

Be ready, be available!


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Tom Cameron

 2014/5/7 11:14Profile
flaglady
Member



Joined: 2011/5/14
Posts: 118
Northern New York

 Re: external/internal

The answer is revival and awakening. China, Iran, Brazil and it seems even Mexico is beginning to stir. I'm going to, thanks to materials and speakers on Sermon Index, outline some of the activity of the Holy Spirit around the world. Then we are going to plea for us to repent and pray and seek God here. I'm going to share the bulk of the facts of Duncan Campbell's account of the Hebrides revival

PRAYER AND TIME.. EXTERNAL REMINDS ME OF THE pARABLE OF THE good SAMARITAN.. JESUS TEACHES US.. Many are too busy (B BEING UNDER SATANS YOKE...
THe one who stopped.. we need to stop and pour in the oil and the wine.. Internally we are all members of the body of Christ and important.. Noone has arrived.. Noone we can strive for holiness.. God alone is Holy..
REPENT PRAY OR BE PREY...REPENT PRAY OR BE PREY..REPENT PRAY OR BE PREY
PRAYER CHANGES THINGS... WE NEED TO KEEP PRAYING PUSH
PRAY UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS.. PRAY OR PREY..


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Frannie

 2014/5/7 19:02Profile









 Re:

Many are too busy? Hmm.

I'm concerned that you used the Good Samartian story but my understanding of the text comes full circle to this 'frustration of internal/external'.

In context, Jesus was responding to the man's plea of 'who is my neighbor [whom the man should love]'. Jesus basically stated, "Those nasty samartians that you hate. Love those people that you/your culture hates." If you don't believe me, check out the perception the Jews had of Samartians during Jesus' day.

Today, for a racist it would be 'love the blacks'. To today's homophobes it would be to 'love the gays'. Etc. Jesus was confronting this man's and every person's bigotry.

This is in line with Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. 'Love your enemies. Bless those that persecute you. etc'

This isn't about sin in someone else's heart (the gay, the black person, etc). This is about the sin in each of our hearts. His kingdom is all about an inward kingdom. Fighting the evil in this world with radical love. Even going as far as laying down our lives (letting them "win"; win in the world terms, they have permission to kill the body, Christians are to turn the other cheek).

I'm concerned that we miss Jesus' point of a heart change. From a heart of stone to a heart of flesh (flesh that is caring for the widow/orphan/weak/feeble/outcasts/'losers'/etc). That is all for now. :)

 2014/9/9 3:11
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Yes, our Lord Jesus went to the heart of the issue of sin in man's corrupt nature. For example He declared hatred to be heart-murder and lust to be heart-adultery. He said in Matt. 15:19-120 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

So it's always good to address the sinfulness of the human heart when preaching the gospel, as Jeremiah 17:9 declares that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.

But I also see Jesus and the apostles and prophets addressing external sins in their proclamation of the Word of God to the world. For example, regarding marital unfaithfulness Christ declared, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."

And we see later on in the pages of the NT that there are many lists of external sins, including homosexuality, that we are warned to flee from at all cost (e.g. 1Cor.6:9-10; Gal.5:19-21).

So it's always important to reason regarding sin, righteousness, and judgment when sharing the gospel with the lost. Jesus said the world hated him because He testified of it that its deeds are evil (John 7:7) and that a servant is not greater than His master so if they hated Him they will hate us if we are His faithful witnesses (John 15:18-20).

That being said, we do have to be careful not to come across as purely hate-filled preachers, like the Westboro preachers and others like them. Like our Lord, we must be full of both grace and truth and speak the truth in love.


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Oracio

 2014/9/9 13:52Profile









 Re:

Your example of Jesus and divorce. It again, points inward. As Jesus mentioned, "It's because of your stubbornness..." (Mark 10:5)

When mentioning non-Jesus teachings, I'm highly skeptical on everyone's exegesis/interpretation, including myself. So, your mention of Paul listing 'external sins'. Yes but Paul wrote to the church of Corinth. It was to people who already consider themselves Christians.

Jesus, God whom became flesh, love-incarnate, our Teacher, was all about focusing that each and everyone who calls themselves a follower of God, to focus on the sin in their own individual hearts and to love all people.

A great example is the woman caught in adultery. Jesus was merciful.

 2014/9/10 4:06





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