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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Church of Wells Discerning - The Church of Wells Website

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 Re:

HeyDave said:

Quote:
"I suppose I just don't like the tone of that website."



I respect and trust brother Greg implicitly in his concerns and discernment so my comment has nothing to do with brother Greg.

But I tend to agree with HeyDave...the tone, the very concept of going to such public lengths with an "anti' website just doesn't feel right.

Perhaps Gamaliel the Pharisee got it right when he said, "We should keep away from these men for now. We should leave them alone. I can guarantee that if the plan they put into action is of human origin, it will fail...."

 2014/5/1 14:16
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5087
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote:
"My brother told me that when he spoke with Taylor that he stated the doctrine of eternal security is heretical and doesn't allow you to properly "fear God." This church has slipped into satanic teaching and only the Lord can set them free."

Ok from what I have read the group seems very cultish. And I certainly don't agree that the doctrine of eternal security is heretical BUT NOR do I think it is heretical to believe that a person can lose their salvation. That is not a "satanic" teaching.

This is an area where reasonable and spirit filled minds of believers may disagree.

Apart from their mind control and weird antics are there other strange doctrinal points that the CoW believes?


_________________
Todd

 2014/5/1 14:22Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1992
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

brother HeyDave, I understand and am in agreement in part with your concerns here. I will try to share my two cents on some of your concerns. It is in a spirit of grace that I want to reply to your sincere concerns brother because I think it's important.You wrote:

Quote:
this website makes a big issue out of the fact that the CoW believes you can loose your salvation. So they are just pushing their 'Reformed' position and claiming that anyone who believes differently is heretical. There are many men of God (even featured on this site) who believe the scriptures warn repeatedly about the possibility of loosing salvation if you do not continue in Christ. So are all of us who hold that position a 'cult' too??


I am in agreement with you on that brother. I believe it was unwise for the creators of that site and others to make such a big deal of belief in the loss of salvation. That is not an essential issue. But I also agree with brother Greg that this group takes that view to an extreme.

Some have asked what exactly is heretical about their teachings and/or practices. For the most part what most have been aware of is their cultish practices of separating godly families. That is crystal clear based on all the testimonies of many who've been involved and hurt.

Regarding their teachings, I find a number of serious errors. I'll point out two which I believe are very serious. The first has to do with their extreme view of the loss of salvation. They believe one can lose their salvation by committing any known, or what they term "willful" sins, even if it's something like telling a lie. You can clearly hear this teaching in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Mvdg3kUMc

The second error has to do with their view of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They believe that one can have the Holy Spirit indwelling them and still be lost and on their way to hell if they sin. You can hear that teaching in that same video also. To be honest I've never heard of any groups believing or teaching such a thing. With just those two errors in their teaching, and given their cultish practices, I believe they have been led astray and are outside of historic orthodox Christianity.

You wrote
Quote:
I'm sorry but I have a major problem with this website that calls out the CoW. As much as I think the CoW is in error, I also see the people behind the website in error.

Instead of genuinely reaching out to these young folk (who in their zeal have wandered into extremes) and try to understand where they are coming from, they are just pushing them further into a corner with an extreme reaction and disassociation, shouting 'cult'.


my brother, we do not know for sure whether or not the producers of that site tried reaching out to the CoW in accordance with biblical procedures first before creating that site. Also, even if they didn't approach them privately first, being that this group's teachings and practices are evidently heretical and cultish, I'm not sure they wouldn't be justified in creating that site for awareness. For example, I don't believe it's necessary for us to consult the Mormons or JWs before publicly denouncing their teachings.

You wrote:
Quote:
The other big issue I have is that some 'preachers' who are loud in their condemnation of the CoW are the very ones who preach the strong messages that can so easily be taken to extremes by young zealous people. These 'preachers' should have been looking to reach out and take some responsibility for some of their hard line preaching that may have contributed to this situation, rather than just distancing themselves from them. I wonder if it is just self preservation for fear of being associated with a group that may end up doing something really stupid.


Brother, I think regarding this I will have to respectfully disagree. I believe the CoW should take full responsibility for their errors. The brothers whom you are referring to may very well be completely innocent in this matter. They may very well have simply been faithful to their calling. And it's possible that CoW has wrongfully taken things to an extreme for whatever reason.

I've seen this kind of thing happen with the ministry of Ray Comfort and the revival of open air preaching which the Lord has used him to help bring about. Many have taken Ray's teaching on the need for preaching the Law to bring the knowledge of sin to an extreme. And some have started open air preaching groups that are hateful and heretical. They attribute their beginnings to Ray's ministry, but they have gone to unbiblical extremes. And it's not Ray's fault.

Respectfully,
Oracio


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Oracio

 2014/5/1 14:24Profile
mattf12486
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Joined: 2012/9/3
Posts: 41


 Re:

The problem is that the COW is actively recruiting people to go there and are masquerading as a sound "biblical church." Many people have already privately reached out to them but to no avail. This website is needed in order to warn the unsuspecting/undiscerning of the dangerous leaven that is within the teachings of the COW.

 2014/5/1 14:24Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Perhaps Gamaliel the Pharisee got it right when he said, "We should keep away from these men for now. We should leave them alone. I can guarantee that if the plan they put into action is of human origin, it will fail...."



Also the problem is if you young daughter or other child were involved in the group and turned your child against you in the name of the Bible and Scripture. I know of many families personally in this situation with them and they are very godly christians, but not godly enough because they are not in Wells learning the teachings from these 3 young elders.


Quote:
The problem is that the COW is actively recruiting people to go there and are masquerading as a sound "biblical church."



I agree with that also brother, they have been connecting with brethren even on SI and other places that have true sold out believers.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/5/1 14:31Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5087
NC, USA

 Re:

It is incredible how people get sucked into such nonsense. Almost like a street gang.


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Todd

 2014/5/1 14:46Profile
mattf12486
Member



Joined: 2012/9/3
Posts: 41


 Re:

I believe the idea that one can lose their salvation is a horrible error and the way the church of wells uses this to manipulate others is indeed satanic.

 2014/5/1 14:46Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1992
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I wrote

Quote:
The second error has to do with their view of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They believe that one can have the Holy Spirit indwelling them and still be lost and on their way to hell if they sin.


Thought I should clarify a bit on that. They believe you can be lost and on your way to hell and at the same time be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. They consider Christians who are in such a supposed state to be in darkness.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/5/1 14:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Also the problem is if you young daughter or other child were involved in the group and turned your child against you in the name of the Bible and Scripture. I know of many families personally in this situation with them and they are very godly christians, but not godly enough because they are not in Wells learning the teachings from these 3 young elders.



I hear you brother Greg and I would be just as upset if these allegations are true as they are made out to be. But that's not really how the website comes across...perhaps there should be more plainly stated detail about the dangerous way they are holding people "hostage" and dividing them against their families. I think some of the things you have said on this thread would be very beneficial to be repeated on that website? At the moment the website tone comes across along the lines that certain people are upset that their names are being associated. Yet when you explain on this forum the real issues at stake it changes the whole tone. I hope that makes sense?

 2014/5/1 15:39
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 769


 Re:

Brothers, let's reason together about this:

The book of Jude and also 2 peter chapter 2, the book of galatians, the book of colossians, the book of 1 corinthians, the book of Luke (and by extension Acts), the book of 1 john, revelation 2-3 and several other chapters or verses of the new testament were written to do a few specific things:

1) to Solidify the truth
2) Call out and correct error
3) Show how the truth differs from the error
4) What to expect from the promoters of error
5) What the believers' response should be toward them

I know the website is not scripture. That is obvious. But to have a website that calls them out is not wrong. It just isn't. And I don't think the spirit of the website is to create an anti-website. It is a warning to believers. A good one too, because it balances a warning and a desire for restoration. Now I think theologically, there could be a lot more on that website, but I think we are trying to reign in that church not pick it apart (at least at this moment). It is clear that the founders do not desire to jump to excommunication and total rejection. They are reaching out.


*********************

The ONLY concern and reservation I have is this:

We know that the church of wells thrives on being rejected. If we do not play this right they will merely say to their members: "See! We are being persecuted and only true Christians get persecuted" and they will justify even more their hardness of heart and rejection of everyone.

 2014/5/1 15:40Profile





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