by amrkelly on 2014/4/19 22:49:43Having just read Greg's reply to your general question Just-In I can say that I agree with that. So I won't attempt to elaborate on it. What I can do is to point out that whilst history does hold some interest, for me at least it is not an interest in order to prove the times we live in. It is simply a history which when seen does demonstrate time and again that the ruler of this present age is always pressing his agenda on men, who regardless of their intellectual abilities are not equal to him.
In contrast a new believer who is soundly saved could easily recognise in an instant that which would never be arrived at by reading every book available to men. I hold that truth does not come by experience and that includes the experience of reading or listening. Some might say that reading the bible must surly produce truth. Yet the Lord admonished the Pharisees and the lawyers of His day that they searched the Scriptures diligently yet never came to a knowledge of the truth. It was just a few days ago that I said right here on SI that occultists and Satanists read the scriptures and look through forums such as this one. I did the very same kind of thing when I was in the very grip of deception before I was saved.
The simple reality is that to truly know is to know Christ according to Christ.
Even reading the Scripture without the life of Christ to illuminate them, at best makes the Scripture a sacred book. The Scripture however cannot of itself give life. They can only point to the true source of life. I do not mean to devalue the Scripture in saying this because to me the Scriptures are the most precious possession I have apart from Christ Himself. Yet some of the most wicked men who ever lived were men who were well versed in the Scripture. Goebbels whom you have mentioned was just such a man. As was Stalin, Hitler, Marx, Engels and so on.
I actually believe that knowledge is largely vain and useless. The only advantage I have may be an ability to get to the centrality of things rather quickly. In that sense I give the impression that I am well read and rather intelligent. The reality is rather different. I am not well read and went to a school for children with learning difficulties. Even when I went to University in the 1980s as a mature student aged 28 years my professor said to me in the first week that men like me always struggled on his courses. By which he meant men who are fundamentally more confident in Christ than in knowledge always find themselves in conflict with knowledge. He was absolutely right in saying it. I did struggle and in the end I realised that it was all so contradictory to the reality of knowing Christ and being led of the Holy Spirit in life. I knew it in pretty well every lecture yet I persisted with it. Today that grounding in understanding Hegelian Philosophy and how it ties into Sociology and Psychology predates Dean Gotcher's own insight into these things.
Again Just-In I don't want to give a wrong impression which may be misleading. I am a fundamentalist to the core. I believe in the patriarchal family as a God given pattern for marriage and child rearing. I believe in the reality of what constitutes the sin of Adam as 'other than' a willful desire on his part to be independent from God. I really do believe that Adam did what he did as a response to his own affection for his wife and that in this he was not deceived by a promise of godhood. I see independence resulting from it and not forming the ambition of it. I wasn't even criticising Dean Gotcher. I simply wanted to point out that he himself is not in a shoe box, unaffected by thinking which of itself can be shaped by the very same Hegelian Model of dialectic praxis which he draws attention to as forming socio-psychological and socio-political thinking in the US especially.
If you want to read something which is very specific to this subject then go to my own website and read the articles under the header "A day of Sorcerers" including the header tab itself. It will no doubt bore you to death, but at least you will get an idea of how these things can be written about in a variety of different ways attending to the nature and basis for deception and compromise in the church itself.
In the end Just-In I actually want the simplicity of things. I agree whole heartedly with Greg that the time has come to separate ourselves and focus on the head, even Christ Himself. This may mean is some ways a starting again as far as understanding where we go from here. I personally have my concerns if Christ does not show up in such a way that we are not dealt with fully. Unless we set aside so much of our knowledge and natural thinking and receive a true revelation of Christ Himself and a proper understanding of ministry and fellowship there will be many problems. That seems to be too purist and simplistic, so I can foresee many problems even in this. Yet where do we go from here on? We must put our trust in the Lord and accept whatever He permits for His own glory and kingdom.
Quote:Hey Just-in, you seem a little bit too busy for your own good, on every thread I read, would you still be able to be still, and rest once in a while?Thank you for your concern. How do you know I am not on vacation, let alone resting in the Lord? What does "too busy for your own good" mean?
Just to clarify what I meant: Just-in you seem to be dealing with too many issues at the same time, and I did too, including this very topic, I spent too much time with it, and got to the source of it. In the past.So it looks like you're multi-tasking, and you know how to add your 2c, or even 8.5 cents to all or lets say every topic.Ok now, here comes my question: Do you want to impress us? Possibly, maybe you are just brilliant by nature. However, and as always, this kind of busi-ness distracts from our lifes, and our relationship with Jesus, simply because it takes up so much time to write these kind of posts.So I'm happy with your response to Andrew, but keep it real brother, this is not an exercise, this is our real lifes. Sometimes after a long writing phase I have to take a breather because of:Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
We are closing this thread and feel the discussion has had its intended end and purpose. May we keep our eyes on the Lord and seek to further our daily relationship with Him as you stated dear brother then we will be able to discern by the Spirit right and wrong.this thread is locked.
_________________SI Moderator - Greg Gordon