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 The King and the Kingdom: Are they a threat to the present rulers and authorities?

Regarding persecution and being wrongfully taken advantage of by "governing authorities", I fully know how the Lord wants me to act and will joyfully follow Him, but like Paul, depending on the situation, I may appeal to the law if there is any law left. At that point, we may be a completely lawless society. We are on our way as top officials are disregarding the law each day and that sends a message to lower officials that they can do the same. Signs of the times, I am very sure. But, anyway, there are some that read SI that have never thought about any of these situations. I fully expect the BLM to pay another visit to Clive Bundy and this time he won't lose his grazing land but his ranch and maybe his life. And most will applaud it and be back on their couch in front of their TV not thinking that anything they are watching on TV will touch them. It's just another interesting "movie".

The Early Church did not have TV and they were in the marketplace each day "rubbing shoulders" with others. They saw the foreign occupiers, (Roman soldiers) in the marketplace each day, armed with their swords and they just did what they could to live peaceably with all men. Except for one thing, they were no longer of this world, no longer served the kings of this world and were living and promoting a new kingdom. They were on fire for God and preached the Gospel and they kept themselves apart from the world (unspotted). When it finally got around that they were promoting another kingdom and another king, things got worse for them in terms of everyday living. But, they weren't just talking they were doing. So, three questions:

1. In which way was the Early Church living that they manifested to the Romans they were a threat? How exactly were they living out "another kingdom" and "another King"? In America we talk about another kingdom and another King, but we don't seem to be a threat to the present "king" and "kingdoms", because we get along just fine right beside them. An undoubtedly, there are many laws on the books that are not God honoring at all and Christians arguably should not be obeying. The Bible says,

"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

2. Does anyone think that Paul went awry of God when he appealed for justice as a Roman citizen? Was he making provision for the flesh?

3. What are your thoughts on how the Early Church would be living in America, today manifesting the King and the Kingdom? Would they get along just fine with the present rulers and authorities? Which decrees, rules, laws would they find it difficult to comply with?

 2014/4/18 11:00
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3235
Texas

 Re: The King and the Kingdom: Are they a threat to the present rulers and authorities

When Daniel was told it was against the law to pray to God, he prayed anyhow (Daniel 6:10). When Meshach, Shadrach, and Abed-nego were commanded to bow to Nebuchadnezzar's 90-foot golden statue, they broke the king's law by refusing to bow (Daniel 3:18). When Herod ordered the 3 wise men to return with information regarding the whereabouts of the Christ child, they didn't return. It takes a good man to break laws made by bad men. Romans 13:1-3 commands believers to obey the "higher powers" as long as the rulers are a terror to evil works, and not to good. God is the highest power. Acts 5:29 plainly states... "We ought to obey God rather than men."


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Mr. Bill

 2014/4/18 11:17Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3235
Texas

 Re:

I said this on another thread, and I am still sticking to it. As Christians, our true citizenship is not on this earth. (Philippians 3:20) Jesus' Kingdom is not of this earth. (John 18:36) Jesus was put to death by people who had "no king but Caesar." (John 19:15) And when you place the demands of the kingdoms of this world ahead of the Kingdom of God, you violate the First Commandment.


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Mr. Bill

 2014/4/18 11:34Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3235
Texas

 Re:

Ezekiel 33:6 teaches that God will hold the watchman accountable if he fails to warn of the impending doom. If a Christian swims with the current of his state-worshipping culture, and is in willful denial of coming dangers, God will hold him accountable.

In short, if a Christian believes he should do everything his earthly rulers say, he is brain dead.


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Mr. Bill

 2014/4/18 11:39Profile









 Re:

I think what you are saying is true, Bill.

We must manifest that we love God with all our hearts. And He does not want us to overthrow any "kingdoms of this world", because His kingdom is not of this world (otherwise His servants would fight). Another kingdom would rise up. You cannot force men to be regenerated and we are not in a battle to wipe the earth of our "enemies". But, I know you understand this.

How is the Church in America placing the demands of earthly kingdoms ahead of Christ's Kingdom?

 2014/4/18 11:41









 Re:

Another question to add to the list:

In America, 18 year old young men, by law have to sign up for Selective Service.

Here are the penalties for not registering:
http://www.sss.gov/FSbenefits.htm

Is this a law that young Christian men are exempt from following according to their own personal faith and conscience?

Would the Early Church have made themselves eligible for conscription into military service?

 2014/4/18 12:07
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

One time - in modern times - people were commanded to bow down to an image. Christians debated what to do but then they remembered Shadrach, Meshach and Abendego and took lessons. They did not bow, they stayed away contrary to gov decree. And the officials left them alone. God was with them and still is. But they were also prepared to pay the price - whatever that was.

One cannot predict how God will act when one obeys the LORD with faced with these dilemmas. All God wants is obedience.


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Sandra Miller

 2014/4/18 12:17Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3235
Texas

 Re:

This question would be for all the folks that totally agree that we should submit to all authorities over us. If our President called you up today, and told you to go throw your new born into the river would you? In my opinion if you would not, you are a hypocrite. See this is one of the issues we have here on SI, we have folks coming into these threads that have strong convictions on their opinions on scripture, but are their convictions to impress, puff-up their knowledge of the word? The "real" test is how would they hold up under a test of their own opinions/preaching of the word.


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Mr. Bill

 2014/4/18 12:25Profile
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

1. In which way was the Early Church living that they manifested to the Romans they were a threat? How exactly were they living out "another kingdom" and "another King"? In America we talk about another kingdom and another King, but we don't seem to be a threat to the present "king" and "kingdoms", because we get along just fine right beside them. An undoubtedly, there are many laws on the books that are not God honoring at all and Christians arguably should not be obeying. The Bible says,

"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

_____________

I believe those early Christians were sharing the gospel of JESUS and living a life that shown such a bight light that the darkness around them hated it. If you or I are sharing with others that the sin they are living in will lead them to destruction they will do all they can to get rid of you. You mentioned "many laws on the books that are not GOD honoring at all and Christians should not be obey?" what laws are you thinking of specifically?

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2. Does anyone think that Paul went awry of God when he appealed for justice as a Roman citizen? Was he making provision for the flesh?

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I find it so interesting that so many pull this one out as a means to support being involved in this worlds government. I don't have any other thoughts on that verse just find it interesting. Are there any other verses that go on from there to show us that Paul was involved in the government of his time? Just wondering

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3. What are your thoughts on how the Early Church would be living in America, today manifesting the King and the Kingdom? Would they get along just fine with the present rulers and authorities? Which decrees, rules, laws would they find it difficult to comply with?

_______________


I believe the early CHURCH, those who were truly following JESUS would be doing the same thing now as they did then. Sharing JESUS, living daily one to another and submitting their lives unto the LORD. I believe they would be praying for those who are lost in this world including those in authority over them.

______________


by just-in on 2014/4/18 9:07:37

Another question to add to the list:

In America, 18 year old young men, by law have to sign up for Selective Service.

____________


This is a very good questions. I have three adult sons who have registered for the draft as is required of them by law to do so. They have no issue with registering as it does not interfere with their walk with JESUS. Now if the draft should come into activation they would resist that law to go and kill as it would interfere with their walk with JESUS. While submitting to the first does not conflict with their walk, submitting to the second would.

The draft is a good question but in truth anyone born in the United States has already been registered, a social security number is given to each child when they are born.
In fact in order to claim your child as a dependent you must supply a valid social security number.

Interesting thoughts
God bless
maryjane


Edit: Oh having been a long time Nevada resident I will say that there is a lot more then the press is telling to this story. I will also say that I pray for calm heads, and that the truth will come out in the court systems and not with killing.

 2014/4/18 12:38Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

by MrBillPro on 2014/4/18 9:25:32

This question would be for all the folks that totally agree that we should submit to all authorities over us. If our President called you up today, and told you to go throw your new born into the river would you? In my opinion if you would not, you are a hypocrite. See this is one of the issues we have here on SI, we have folks coming into these threads that have strong convictions on their opinions on scripture, but are their convictions to impress, puff-up their knowledge of the word? The "real" test is how would they hold up under a test of their own opinions/preaching of the word.

_____________________

Greetings MrBill

We are to obey and submit to the government so long as it does not conflict with our walk with JESUS. Throwing a child of any age into a river I am pretty sure would conflict so I do not consider myself a hypocrite for not complying should such a degree be given. If the laws that are required of me do not interfere then I believe the WORD tells us we are to submit.

I said in another thread I do not like "what if" situations but I do pray often that I would be faithful to HIM and stand firm on the ROCK OF CHRIST JESUS in all times. I do pray often that I would cling to HIM. I think about how many saints over the years were given the choice to renounce JESUS or die....I pray by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT that in that time my words would prove to action!! As I am sitting here today I do not trust my own heart but I do trust KING JESUS and not HE would not fail me. I think that is why is its so important to be found in HIM daily and to cling to Him always.

God bless
maryjane

 2014/4/18 12:47Profile





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