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Discussion Forum : General Topics : A vision of God's glory and coming unity of the Body of Christ

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Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1623


 Re:

I always believed that John 17 is a prayer of Jesus who was a righteous man. God always answered the prayers of righteous man. Hence it is an answered prayer, not a prayer that will be answered sometime in future. So even today true believers will be united in one spirit. It is only those false brothers who hold doctrines above the complete truth or denomination above love that try to glory and distinguish themselves alone. As Apostle Paul says, the division among true and false believers is always evident and good because it shows us who is approved and who is not. I do not believe such divisions will disappear and some unity will come. I only believe the divisions that you see in Christendom today will increase more as we progress towards end time.


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Sreeram

 2014/4/7 1:01Profile









 Re:

Hi Sree, I think you may have been reading the post wrong, or perhaps we may just disagree. I never said nor do I believe that divisions will disappear. Divisions are within Christendom, Christendom is not the Body of Christ, Christendom is simply everything that calls itself by the name of Christ, that is a huge difference. The Body of Christ is scattered all through out Christendom. It is the Body of Christ that has and will begin to desert Christendom as the day of the Lord approaches. Christendom has and will become so corrupt and compromised with the world that genuine believers will not be able to stay. Add to that the persecution that will come to all saints all over the world at the same time and you will see the separation compelled by necessity.

This is the fulfillment of the Word of God. The gospel will be preached to all the world " as a witness," and then the end shall come, according to Jesus. Our unity, according to Jesus in John 17 will be seen by the world, " so that the world will know." No one can say that anytime in the last 2000 years that our unity has been a witness to the world, in fact quite the opposite. We have certainly seen small pockets of genuine saints resist Christendom in all it's religiosity , but we have never seen the Body of Christ visible universally and yet this is exactly what Jesus is talking about when you also consider Matt 24 and Eph4.

When this happens, the saints will not be following men and there will be no man elevated on a platform, the only man that will be elevated on a platform will be the man Christ Jesus. No man will say I am of Paul or I of apollus , for this is the essence of carnality. Jesus will be preeminent................bro Frank

ps , one last point about Christendom. Their divisions will not last not increase in the last days, in fact they will come together with other religions and become the great whore church in a counterfeit unity.

 2014/4/7 10:31









 Re: A-Servant

brother/sister A-Servant, what is your first name and you wouldn't happen to be an Aussie by any chance would you?

 2014/4/7 10:32
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1623


 Re:

Quote:

Hi Sree, I think you may have been reading the post wrong, or perhaps we may just disagree. I never said nor do I believe that divisions will disappear. Divisions are within Christendom, Christendom is not the Body of Christ, Christendom is simply everything that calls itself by the name of Christ, that is a huge difference. The Body of Christ is scattered all through out Christendom. It is the Body of Christ that has and will begin to desert Christendom as the day of the Lord approaches. Christendom has and will become so corrupt and compromised with the world that genuine believers will not be able to stay. Add to that the persecution that will come to all saints all over the world at the same time and you will see the separation compelled by necessity.



I just stated what I believed about Jesus's prayer and unity in Body of Christ. I did not refer to your original post. So far I agree with your understanding of Universal body of Christ and the Christendom.

Quote:

This is the fulfillment of the Word of God. The gospel will be preached to all the world " as a witness," and then the end shall come, according to Jesus. Our unity, according to Jesus in John 17 will be seen by the world, " so that the world will know." No one can say that anytime in the last 2000 years that our unity has been a witness to the world, in fact quite the opposite. We have certainly seen small pockets of genuine saints resist Christendom in all it's religiosity , but we have never seen the Body of Christ visible universally and yet this is exactly what Jesus is talking about when you also consider Matt 24 and Eph4.



This is where I disagree with you. I do not believe in a unity that is yet to come. I believe in an unity that exists and will exist till the end time. The universal Body of Christ is something that already exists not something that will come. In this Body of Christ there is a unity. Also there is unity in many different local body of Christ. The church that I attend is an example. I have seen many unbelievers marvel at the unity we have and how we share burden of one another.

Also Jesus said that we believers can do greater work than what Jesus did. The only work that Jesus could never do is to unite his disciples in one spirit during his stay on this earth. The disciple fought with one another asking who will be the greatest. But now we can have a unity among disciples because the same spirit is freely bestowed on us. So this greater work of uniting believers is possible.


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Sreeram

 2014/4/7 12:38Profile
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Quote:
This is where I disagree with you. I do not believe in a unity that is yet to come. I believe in an unity that exists and will exist till the end time. The universal Body of Christ is something that already exists not something that will come. In this Body of Christ there is a unity. Also there is unity in many different local body of Christ. The church that I attend is an example. I have seen many unbelievers marvel at the unity we have and how we share burden of one another.



I believe both of you brothers are right, there have been local unities of the body of Christ throughout the last 2000 years. Many of these movements were greatly used of the Lord as great shining lights in this depraved world. But towards a world-wide unity of the body of Christ this has not happened it happened in the days of the Apostles but was shortly lost afterwards.

God is allowing a world-wide persecution and martyrdom so that all true believers will be unified in their testimony of the Gospel to all the kings of the earth and then the end will come. The last days missions movement will be a movement of martyrdom world-wide.

So we should desire after local unity of the body of Christ, but also world-wide unity.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/4/7 14:27Profile
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 Re:

I would also agree very much with brother Frank that we need to see a unity locally of saints who have their identity in the "one body of Christ" world-wide where Jesus is the head and not by men's names and specific doctrines.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/4/7 14:41Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
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 Re:

In commenting on the different perspectives of Frank and Sree, I would also say that they are both right, but looking at it from a different aspect.
There is an inward unity that is presently true with all true believers and also an outward unity that is being worked out. It is this outward manifest unity that I believe Frank is addressing and that we do not see complete.

Consider Ephesians Chapter 4.
In verses 1 to 3

"I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,

with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,

endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."

So here we are exhorted to KEEP the unity of the Spirit. You can only keep what you already have!

As Paul develops his instruction in this chapter and describes the functioning of the body in building itself up, he then says in verse 13 that
the purpose of this is that we might come to the 'unity of the faith'. Unity of the spirit and unity of the faith are two different things.
Unity of the faith is the outward conformity of believers that have matured in their walk though the correct functioning of the body. It is this that we don't see much of today.


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Dave

 2014/4/7 15:37Profile









 Re:

Yes, I was going to say a similar thing, Dave.

The inward unity that exists will be manifested on a larger scale.

Those who are not serving two Masters recognize each other.

 2014/4/7 15:41









 Re:

Just-in and Heydave have captured the essence of what I am saying.............

"It is this outward manifest unity that I believe Frank is addressing and that we do not see complete."

"the purpose of this is that we might come to the 'unity of the faith'. Unity of the spirit and unity of the faith are two different things.
Unity of the faith is the outward conformity of believers that have matured in their walk though the correct functioning of the body. It is this that we don't see much of today."

Indeed and amen. In both John 17 and Matt 24 Jesus refers to the world, so that the world might know, so that we can be a witness to the world. In Eph 4 the whole purpose of the various ministries was to bring us to a point, or , to use the word of Paul " until," we come ..........

"ph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: "

Many may claim to have that locally, although I myself have not witnessed it, but I do not think anyone would claim that we have this universally, visabily so as to be a witness to the world..........bro Frank




 2014/4/7 16:16
a-servant
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Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

brother Mark

that's a good one. Perhaps I sound like an Aussie, because
I talk a lot with them. And in fact i live on a tropical island right
now where you can reach Aussieland by plane in two hours,
so obviously a lot of our dear Aussie friends live/come over here.

cheers, fair dinkum, and she will be alright, mate

brother George

 2014/4/7 22:23Profile





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